Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to another edition of the Red Leaf Fitness podcast, a show dedicated to bringing you stories, interviews and conversations about living a healthy, resilient and productive life. I'm your host, sean Blinch, and I want to thank you for making time to listen to this episode today and, if you like what we're putting down, we would love it if you would follow, rate and share this podcast. All right, now let's get down to business. Welcome back to the Red Leaf Fitness podcast. On Saturday, september 9th, I am sitting here with the Silverbacks, both of them legends Kevin Cunningham, crossfit Games athlete, and his longtime friend and coach of the CrossFit Games, trenton Mackenzie Arms. How are you guys both doing today?

Speaker 2: 0:54

Good, good.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Good to be here, Good, good and just to bring people in on what we're doing, we're all at home, so this is one of our first virtual sessions where I'm at home recording and Kevin's actually when are you joining us? From Kevin West, stockbridge, massachusetts, coming in hot from the US of A, and Trenton's, about five minutes up the street from me, exactly. So you guys both went on an incredible journey. You guys are also going to go on another incredible adventure. I believe you both fly out Wednesday and I want to make sure we talk a little bit about that today too, and also do a podcast later on on what happened on that trip, because I can't wait to hear about it.

Speaker 1: 1:47

I'm super jealous, but we're here today to talk about your CrossFit Games experience. So you had a lot of fans, I'm sure, at home with your friends and family and everybody local, but you also had a lot of fans north of the border and we were all so stoked and so proud. So there's a lot of people waiting to hear this podcast, and I do have a couple of questions loaded up from some of the people that were following this story, and the first one is Can you talk a little bit about how did you?

Speaker 1: 2:19

Why do you? The first question would be what inspired you to go after a goal like that?

Speaker 3: 2:35

It's been Since going back to 2015, which was the first time I did the Open with Trenton at CrossFit Metric and you were coaching us. It's always been in the back of my mind back then. For the people who've been around a little bit longer, they used to have regionals and you could look at the leaderboard and slice it and dice it and we were in Canada East and we would check out not only our age group, but where were we in Canada East? So that was a lot of fun and there were a lot of really decent athletes. And by the time 2018 rolled around either 2018 or 2019, I turned, I guess.

Speaker 3: 3:24

2018, I turned 60. So I was in a new age group and I did pretty well in the Open and then injured myself between the Open and the quarterfinals. So that was not a good quarterfinals. And then your podcast. So I watched a Red Leaf podcast with Nicole and we all knew Nicole and it was very inspiring. She basically worked on her weaknesses and just put her head down and hammered and so I said, well, I'm turning 65 this year, it's time for me to do what Nicole did, and that was kind of. It was definitely part of the inspiration was your podcast with Nicole when she talked about her experience.

Speaker 1: 4:23

That's so cool. Have you reached out to Nicole? Did you reach out to Nicole about the podcast or since you went to the game?

Speaker 3: 4:33

Yeah. So Trenton suggested reach out to Nicole and I had sent her an email and asked her a few questions and she was amazing. So I got like 10 page email back on all the things, what to expect, and we've been in touch. And then she sent me another one with like more things she thought about. And then I reached out to her again after the games to thank her for all the help because her advice was spot on, really good stuff. And it was kind of funny because I said to her I said in my email after the games I said you know I've been, I've been bitten by the bug. You know I want to, I want to try to do this again next year.

Speaker 3: 5:22

And she said. She said I was reading your email to my boyfriend and he just started laughing out loud. She said bitten by the bug. You went to the games this year. You've been bitten a long time ago.

Speaker 1: 5:37

I think that's a great point.

Speaker 3: 5:40

But she also said she said the silverbacks. Trent and I back at Metric inspired her to work a lot harder. So it was. It was pretty interesting that we both inspired each other.

Speaker 2: 5:53

Fritjewis.

Speaker 1: 5:55

Yeah, I, you know there was a lot of that, like you know, you think back to those mornings where it was you guys, richard, there might have been another couple other, you know you had, you had the, you had Wayne in there and you had Mark Pan Gord yeah, Gord RRX, gord RRX, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Yeah, and there was a lot of that sort of reciprocal inspiration, I think, where the you know the young guns were looking up and you know they wanted to go hard and they were inspired. And then you know it was always crazy to see when silverbacks would dust up the young guns and it happened quite a bit, you know Mostly on the cardio. Yeah, you know, so you love that. Is there any? Do you have anything to add on that, trent?

Speaker 2: 6:46

Just in terms of the journey. No, yeah, in some sense it was inevitable and I think we each watched ourselves cross those big thresholds like 55, 60, 60 and then Kevin 65, and it kind of wouldn't feel like it was getting closer. And then it was getting close, getting further away. But you know, interestingly, talking to Kevin last fall about him trying to make the decision about do I go to Kona one more time or do I go to the games, and it was like I'm going to the games or my ambition, and away he went and it was like pretty intense after that.

Speaker 1: 7:22

Kevin, what do you think what drives you? You know it's so, it's so unique and it's a typical and it's so inspiring. You know to think at 65, like you're never out of the fight, like what do you think it is inside that makes you go? I'm going after this thing, you know gosh.

Speaker 3: 7:46

I don't know. That's a tough question, but I it really. Things came together this year and I can tell you so when. Well, there's a couple of things that were going on. One is between July and December last year I had four different Mohs surgeries for skin cancer and that kept kind of shutting down training for two weeks at a time. So in January, rolled around, my plan was we're going to train right through the open and right through the quarterfinals and try to peak for the semis. And because I had my time shrank and I had the, when it came down to the semis I could have just as easily been 11th as 10th and as a big, big difference between going and not going, and I'm so grateful that I went. But also, if I had been 11th, I was really happy with the process. So it wasn't all about going to the games, it was. It was more about just showing up and being the best you can be and I had. My biggest takeaway from the games is gratitude, because it really takes a team.

Speaker 3: 9:17

I think of CrossFit as an individual sport, but it's not. It's not even remotely individual Every day. It's your community. You know, michelle, and Redleaf turned me on to tactic nutrition.

Speaker 3: 9:33

A couple of years ago and starting in October of last year, I got a tactic nutrition coach and then I also had, you know, my local CrossFit gym shut down and the coach from there was coaching me about twice a week individually and I would go to his house but we did most. We did more accessory work than we did wads. And then I had to walk into a brand new gym in February and I said I need a place to do the open and I joined your gym and it's a 25 minute drive from my house, so it's not that convenient and they could not have been nicer. And they really, really, really showed up for the quarterfinals in the semis. There's no way I could have done them without their help. They really helped and in fact and we couldn't even do all the workouts at their gym we had to go to another gym that was about an hour away where the rope was high enough.

Speaker 1: 10:35

Yeah, it's probably 12 foot rope versus 15 foot rope, or something.

Speaker 3: 10:41

Yeah, and then Trenton showing up at the games was that was just like the icing on the cake. So when I look back and also I used Kelly Starrett's mobility wad so if I think about some of the things I did different, it was mostly I do a lot more mobility and accessory work, because the key to getting to the games is being able to stay in the game and not get injured, and some of that's luck but some of it's preparation. So I had this this year. I had a very big team of people who were all in my corner and that made a big difference and I'm very grateful. Yeah, and you have to work, so hard Like this.

Speaker 2: 11:29

it's unrelenting right. It's just sort of it's got to be every day. It's got to be disciplined, yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:36

I have the benefit that I can. I have a gym in the house, so if I'm feeling lazy, I just go downstairs and work out in the house and I can. And I, you know, I can do weights, I can do cardio, I can row, I can run, I can bike, I can do weights.

Speaker 1: 11:55

It's pretty good that way. Yeah, I mean having Redleaf South in your basement must have been a huge asset.

Speaker 3: 12:02

I was actually. I was thinking I should actually do this podcast from the, from the gym and Redleaf South. I was also thinking, technically, this is Redleaf East. We're south of the border, but we're way east and not very far south, that's.

Speaker 1: 12:25

that's that's true. Actually Redleaf Southeast.

Speaker 3: 12:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:32

Sounds like. It sounds like a music concert.

Speaker 3: 12:35

Yeah, has done the drive here and you just get on 90 and then interstate 90, and then Trenton guns it to about 85 and he's here in no time.

Speaker 2: 12:48

Kevin goes, I just drive. I think I'm going to drive to Montana next week. Forget the plane, I'll just drive. It'll only take me a couple of days.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Yeah, that's right, road warrior, you know. But I think I guess, like you know, I'm kind of still on on the idea of just what do you think and maybe, maybe it's hard to answer something like that about yourself, right, because you're really, you're really humble and stoic person Like, what do you think it is about people who at, at, at it, doesn't matter what the age is and they're still going after it? And what advice could you say to somebody, right, like if, if somebody's saying, you know, remember 40s, now it's time to shut it down, and like, so what do you have to say about that kind of headspace?

Speaker 3: 13:46

Well, I've. In the last three or four years I've become a bit of a student of longevity medicine and I can shout out to mom and dad this week my parents celebrated their 70th wedding anniversary. So they're still going strong at age 91 and 93. They traveled. They traveled by themselves to South Korea this past summer, so there's a chance I might live for a while.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Yep CrossFit.

Speaker 1: 14:20

Games.

Speaker 2: 14:20

Athletes 90 plus.

Speaker 3: 14:25

This is supposed to be Trenton. Doesn't push me off a cliff next week.

Speaker 1: 14:31

Yeah yeah, Trent's going for the 91 age bracket.

Speaker 3: 14:37

That's the only way. I think the goal is, whatever your, whatever your longevity span is, you want to be healthy in the last 10 years of your life and that's one of the you know suppositions of one of the foundations across fit is functional fitness. I want to be able to carry a grocery bag. I want to be able to stand up without using my hands. All those things will take you into your you know the last decade of your life in good stead. So if you, if you value your fitness, stopping at 40 is the last thing you want to do. Movement is everything. And the other piece is you know, from a leadership perspective, whether you're leading a group at work, you're reading, you're leading, you're doing the best job you can for your family, or you're leading a group of people on a Saturday morning bike ride, the first step of being a good leader is showing up for yourself and being fit and vibrant and being an example for others. So you can't unless you can lead yourself, you can't lead others.

Speaker 1: 15:54

I love that.

Speaker 3: 15:54

So you know, you know being physically fit is the foundation to being mentally fit, to being emotionally stable, to being in touch with the universe.

Speaker 2: 16:09

We're blessed in a way, because I don't think we we could do it any other way. So you know, it's an interesting question to you. Know, if we, if we tried to coach somebody in their fifties who wasn't kind of a consistent athlete like what, would you, what would we say? And that that's an interesting question, because I don't have a choice. I have to get up, go for a bike ride or go to the gym, because otherwise I can't. I can't cope with the day.

Speaker 3: 16:37

But I do. Crossfit puts a lot of effort into the appropriate ways to scale and not be intimidating to people who you know don't come naturally to fitness and from that perspective, creating fitness as a community event. I think it's been just a fantastic, you know, change in the way, you know people think about fitness and people think about going to the gym.

Speaker 1: 17:10

Yeah, crossfit revolutionized that and really introduced community based fitness approach. For sure. No, kevin, when you're talking about lifespan and health span, is that some Peter Atea stuff? And also, is that? Is that kind of where you're, where you're getting from?

Speaker 3: 17:28

I listened to a lot of Peter Atea because he's a Canadian and we know we can learn something from Canadians and yeah, so it's him and Andy Huberman and you know, you, you listen to a Peter Atea podcast and he has Andy Galpin on, or Lane Norton, and you start to expand the people who you hear about and he's a smart guy, so and it's, it's not prescriptive, it's more teaching and it's an opium. Here's what we think about this, here's what we think about that. So I like, I like the podcast.

Speaker 1: 18:13

If interesting, like I. So I read Peter's book and it was fantastic. Some of it was dancing. I don't know if I connected with like some of the you know really like sort of scholarly side of it, but I was able to pull out like the bigger concepts and the bigger conversation. But then I went back and I reread the Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter and it's interesting. But that was actually the first time I actually saw the phrase health span versus lifespan and I know that Michael Easter and Atea, they're all sort of you know, they're all in this sort of group right as sort of leading the charge and in, you know, in online health education and stuff. So I wonder if they influenced each other with that.

Speaker 3: 19:01

Yeah, there's also another guy you might want to put on your reading list. It's Stephen Kotler and he has a book called Stealing Fire oh, I've heard of it. Yeah, and he studied what's? He studied performance and flow states. But his latest, his latest book was kind of a passion project and he's been like he's been a lifelong skier and he lives out in the VOD. I think he's really close to a lot of different ski areas in California.

Speaker 3: 19:42

But he's now 55 years old and he said can I take everything I know about flow and performance and learn something new? And for him he's a very good like free rider and he'll go off piece and I'll jump and do all sorts of things. But can I go learn what the kids do and go into the park and jump off you know, do all the tricks and jump off this and land on that. And at age 55, can I, can you do that? And he spent a whole year and wrote a whole book about it. So it's pretty interesting for the older athlete. If you're interested in you know new stuff at age 55 or age 65. For me I'm pretty excited. So Trenton can tell you that pistols or single leg squats were a disaster for me, but in this year sub optimal. Yeah, I got, but I got. I got multiple ring muscle ups this year.

Speaker 1: 20:50

And.

Speaker 3: 20:51

I did a bar muscle up in the game and to you know to be learning new skills at age 65, I think it's pretty cool. So cool. So you know, that's the kind of thing that keeps me going. You're not old if you can learn new stuff, and I think one of the other things that Peter Tia brings to the fore is just being a lifelong learner. You can, there's always new stuff to learn, and I'm fortunate enough that I have more time to learn new stuff since. I retired.

Speaker 1: 21:28

So it's good and it's. It's funny that that exact, that exact line was I just read that in born to run. I'm reading that for a book review podcast that we're doing and it was said exactly that. I'll paraphrase it was just you don't stop learning because you get old. You get old because you stop learning. I was like that's excellent. It's speaking exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 22:01

So next week. As long as we're talking about learning, next week I'm going to learn what it's like to sleep in a tent with Trenton.

Speaker 1: 22:11

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a I can't wait to. We got to do a podcast on that adventure.

Speaker 3: 22:22

You guys are going on, excuse me so what goes on in Montana stays in Montana, so okay, so.

Speaker 2: 22:34

Snore is what we're going to find out.

Speaker 1: 22:36

Oh, it'll be snoring, I feel like. So I want to lead us into actually, you know the the day in, day out. I want to lead us in with one of the most hilarious things that Kevin said. As we were planning this, you know, we were trying to find a date or email and it says you know, sean, you're in the 65 plus category. You're not going to remember. It was like it was five weeks ago or so. Anyway, it was hysterical, so we got to document this, okay.

Speaker 3: 23:13

So Trenton wrote everything down, so I have I have cliff notes to refer to.

Speaker 1: 23:20

So can. So let's, can we talk about like everything, like the lead up, even, even what it was like for both of you the days ahead, like how did you prep what happened when you got there? Let's start there.

Speaker 3: 23:34

You want me to go first? Yeah, so the we arrived on, both of us arrived on Saturday. Sunday we had, we had registration in the afternoon and then Monday is orientation. So it's a little bit like an Ironman on Sunday and you get there on a Thursday. But you got all this like anticipation and I was pretty wound up, I wasn't sleeping at all, but we did it. You know, we kind of got through it. On Sunday morning we went to a local CrossFit gym and there's some of the teams were working out there and these guys are monsters, they're really good, and so Trenton and I are kind of looking around pretty wide. It was so cool.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Somebody had sponsored that gym, kevin, I guess they had a connection to the gym and they said, yeah, come on and come on and train. Like we didn't go to a class, they just. The whole gym was turned over to games athletes doing their warmups and there was this. There was a German team and American team, some individual age athletes and then us two sort of stand in the corner and this is where we met the Australian athlete.

Speaker 3: 24:53

Yeah, so yeah, it was. It turned out the husband and wife that owned that gym. They were skiers. They went to a local high school in Vermont. The husband was from around here in Western Mass. They went. They met in high school. They also went to high school with my Wim Hof instructor Wow, there's a small world story. And Josh, the owner, the husband, he's from Pittsfield, mass, and I joined CrossFit Pittsfield right before the open and so he knew them and they put me in touch with with the gym out there in Madison, wisconsin. So it was a small world story. And then Trenton and I started talking to. I started talking to a woman from Sydney who's in her 60 to 64. It was her 13th games and Trenton was talking to her coach, who was a very nice guy.

Speaker 3: 25:53

So she kind of knew the drill after 13 times. And then she said to me later we were there for about two hours working out and she says oh yeah, before I go back to Sydney I'm flying to Massachusetts. And I said oh yeah, really, where are you going to go? And she said some little town, lee, massachusetts. I said it's about 10 minutes from my house, wow. So she was visiting a woman that I trained with, who went to the games in prior years, who's in her age group, and so I knew who she was going to visit. But I hadn't seen her because COVID shut our local gym down. But I knew someone that she was going to go visit. So that was another small world story going to.

Speaker 3: 26:37

Madison and meeting all these people.

Speaker 2: 26:40

But it's so cool, this anxiety and anticipation like Kevin's not sleeping and what's going to happen. So we have a time to check in and we have emails. Ok, these athletes, you got to check in at this time. So Trent goes, he checks in. I was like, oh yeah, that's who you are. Ok, here's your wristband Go away. And then Kevin goes to check in oh, Mr Cunningham, welcome to the games. And he was like here and they take this and then check this and check his ID. And can you go over to that desk over there? Ok, it goes over there. Ok, can you go around the corner here? And he's gone for like 45 minutes.

Speaker 3: 27:16

And they hand you five pairs of shoes, tons of clothing, a gym bag, a duffel bag, a backpack and a fanny pack. I actually, I literally. This is true story. After that I went back and upgraded to a bigger room at my hotel Because there was so much stuff and I had to check three bags. So again, nicole told me they're going to give you a lot of stuff, but I took four pairs of shoes with me because I needed my shoes. They gave me five pairs of shoes. So I'm packing up. I have nine pairs of shoes to take.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Oh my God, of course, yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:00

You know. And then, after they gave me all the clothes, I'll count all these bags. Then they say, ok, you have to go around here and somebody's giving you grips, someone's giving you weight belt, someone's giving you sunglasses, you know, it just kept going on. It was like Christmas.

Speaker 1: 28:14

Is it overwhelming or are you having a blast or both?

Speaker 3: 28:19

I think we were having pretty much. Trenton was keeping it pretty loose and, yeah, Trenton showed up on Saturday and then he just took charge. So he said you know, he took care of our schedule, he made sure I was where I was. He showed up on my hotel every day to pick me up and then he would make sure. Ok, now it's time to start your pre-event nutrition. Now we got to do this, you know they'll get in the ice bath after the workout.

Speaker 3: 28:49

Then we got to go take your post event nutrition, your recovery nutrition. Then we need to start warming up and we have to be you know. So he took, and then he would he selected the weights, the warmup weights, and what? How are we going to do it now? Do this, now do that? That took a huge burden off of me. I just didn't have to think about it because I had Trenton there, so it was great, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:13

Trenton, you know what did it mean for you to show up? Actually, let me back that up what did it mean for you to get tapped by your close friend, after all these years of CrossFit, to go in and do this? I want to talk a little bit about how you felt going into this and sort of filling that role, who I don't remember? Look at your notes.

Speaker 2: 29:45

Oh right, Kevin, kevin, right, kevin, ok, nice to meet you. Well, he said it earlier.

Speaker 3: 29:56

I told you Trenton kept it loose. We were good.

Speaker 2: 30:01

Sort of gratitude. I think that my, my sense through that whole week was, you know, you're sort of an odd of of the work that's been put into getting there and then just trying to help in any way you could, and that sense of just pure service. I think in a way, kind of the peak of being a coach is sort of I'm here for you. How do we help you get better? What's going to make this work? What's going to just all of those things that you would do for a friend or a colleague to say how do we make this the best experience possible? I mean, I obviously have no ability or capacity. Yeah, we had less capacity in the events.

Speaker 2: 30:43

At one point, you know I think I wrote about I was yelling so hard I lost my voice. Kevin's like what happened to your voice? I said I lost my voice yelling at you. I was like what were you saying? So okay, I'll stop, stop yelling. But so you know, what you know, in a way, was disappointing was you didn't on the field. I didn't have that ability to kind of yell and say keep going.

Speaker 2: 31:11

You know it's great. And so they okay, that's okay, that's only one element. The rest of it is, you know, okay, we're done with this event. What do we do to cool down, refuel, get mentally get ready, because there were some, there were some updates and there were some down days, and so, okay, how do we get to the next one drop? That, obviously, kevin's got a lot of experience of just let's move on. And so, as a team, we were and we'd say, okay, here's the next event, what are we going to do? What's you know, what's the timing? What do you think? Well, I think it's this many seconds per move, and then we're going to do this. And so each there was a little strategy chat and I think that there's there's nothing better than just being involved in something where someone's achieving or pushing themselves.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Yeah, and did you? Did you feel confident?

Speaker 2: 32:04

I, you know, again, it goes back to that that overwhelming sense of sort of in the moment service had nothing to do with me. So my confidence or lack of confidence was irrelevant. And confidence, and obviously in Kevin or what was going to happen, cause, yeah, you'd look at a wad and go, oh, but that that was irrelevant, so it was more. I just got to do whatever I think he needs right now and you kind of watch and it's like, okay, well, you know he's, he's clearly he needs a few minutes, he just want to wander around and he's going to just take a measure of the big gym. Like whenever we warmed up, that was like it was this huge intimidating space and you're watching everybody around you and what are they doing? What are they doing and it's like, okay, go for a wander and come back.

Speaker 2: 32:49

I was okay, right here, let's get to work. We got to do this and then sort of figuring out what kind of effort was required, because there's, it was these long time gaps, like you'd warm up, then they go corral and it's very pretty social, but you could see all the athletes kind of in their heads a bit, and then we'd go for this walk to the venues, and then they'd warm up again. So we're always thinking about okay, how much you know where's the heart rate going to be here, and we're going to sit and we're going to do it, and then we're going to go back again. So what do we have to do to get to that point of its go time?

Speaker 1: 33:23

You know Trent. I just want to comment on that a little bit because I think it's really cool. Kevin, you might not know this, but Trent was really, really focused on making sure that he showed up right. It was. It was like it was a really big deal for you, right, and you know, and he, it was a really big deal for him to be. The amount of work that I saw Trent do on on just trying to blueprint how he could show up the best possible way for you was really touching. And I think it's sweet to hear the story like straight from you guys and like I hear you know I'm putting it together right From both of your guys' advantages and you know, and I hear you know, I like how Trent said it didn't matter how I felt and that was a way to park all that emotion and just be in 100% service and I think there's a lesson there. I think that's really neat.

Speaker 3: 34:27

Well, he hit the target right in the bullseye because it was perfect. It could not have been better experience.

Speaker 2: 34:35

Yeah, wasn't so good at coaching the bar muscle-ups.

Speaker 3: 34:43

But I mean Trent alluded to it a little bit when he checked in, versus what I checked in, they the coaches and the athletes are the only ones allowed in this warm-up venue. But we also had mandatory athlete meetings and the athletes would all sit in these stands and the coaches had to stand for an hour out just outside of the stand where the stands were, and then they would put us in a corral and walk us to either the stadium or the Coliseum where the next event was going to be, and the coaches had to go a different route. They couldn't walk, and then they would. The coaches would meet us back up there.

Speaker 3: 35:27

So, trent, but Trent took all my nutrition and he took my bag and he had. You know, he just said here, you just worry about this, I'll take care of everything else, and that's the way it was. You know, the whole time out there, trent took care of all the details, so I wasn't distracted by them, and there were a lot of details like the. You know the time of the event and the time you had to be at the corral and where he had to be, and Trent knew all that stuff and he constantly updated and checked and had on his phone and there was a whiteboard, so I didn't have to deal with that stuff.

Speaker 1: 36:02

Right and probably knew where to be right. There was probably like was there any? Was it like it probably wasn't an enormous amount of space to cover, but I mean you had to know where to be when and what you know.

Speaker 3: 36:15

Yeah, Well, it was, it was nothing was nothing was you know a distance or anything difficult? There was just a lot of it. You know three events a day, plus opening ceremonies, plus mandatory meetings every day. There were just places. You had to be almost all the time.

Speaker 2: 36:39

It must be interesting, for because all the other you know, you, the athletes, did a good job of sort of getting to know each other and the coaches a little bit. I was saying to Kevin, though I think there was more of a competitive spirit in the coaches than there was. I mean, the athletes were competing, you know, with themselves, but you could tell they were getting you know, they were comparing notes and chatting and they were pretty friendly. And the coaches there's a little bit more Okay, that person and a little bit of trash, talk over here and strategy over there and do this. But a lot of them had been there before. And that was the other thing I told myself and I'm not sure how Kevin approached it was this is our first time, so we gotta be in the moment, enjoy this. This is super cool. Like, don't as much as, yes, I wanna be. Okay, kevin's gotta do a good job, is he ready and stuff like. But this is super cool, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:34

That's my favorite part.

Speaker 2: 37:35

There was a million and a half people in the stands on the first event. No, maybe not, maybe 400.

Speaker 3: 37:46

It was the camera. It was a million feet away.

Speaker 2: 37:49

Yes.

Speaker 1: 37:51

Yeah, I hope they never. That was so infuriating. We were all fired up, we all tuned in and we were just like, did they just put like Gary's iPhone out there? And just I mean like they? But yeah, they got a lot of flak for that, cause there's a lot of really cool age groupers that you know those stories are just as cool as the, you know, the indie folks.

Speaker 2: 38:16

Yeah, it must have felt really wild when you first the first weightlifting Wad won, kind of walking out onto the field and your name's there and you're kind of figuring out what's gonna happen. What was that?

Speaker 1: 38:29

like.

Speaker 3: 38:31

So I have to tell you, I studied mathematics as an undergraduate of Sean.

Speaker 2: 38:38

He can count, unlike you know.

Speaker 3: 38:43

So for folks listening at home, the first event was the Olympic total, which is your max snatch and your max effort, clean and jerk. And you had three minutes to do your snatch and then there was no break. You immediately had three minutes to do the clean and jerk. So you effectively had more time for the snatch because when you got out to the platform your bar was loaded with your opening weight for the snatch. It was already loaded and then you but the three minutes for the clean and jerk starts you have to, you know, get to your opening weight. So effectively you lost that amount of time.

Speaker 3: 39:27

So I walk out onto the, onto the platform, and I looked down at my opening weight for the snatch was 115 pounds and I looked down and there's a barbell and two 35 pound plates. I never used 35 pound plates. So all my natural math like out the door, Right. So what I should have done, so I did, I did 115, slapped on two fives, did 125, slapped on two more fives, or took the fives off and slapped on 10s and did 135. And that was my max snatch. Now I'm in a rush because I have to. I think I started at 155 for the clean and jerk. What I should have done was stripped everything off and put 45s on, but I didn't think I had enough time.

Speaker 3: 40:25

And you know, that's a one. It's a rookie mistake. Two it's a mistake I should have you know. Okay, breathe.

Speaker 2: 40:34

He has to judge for a calculator.

Speaker 3: 40:35

You have time. You have time you have time.

Speaker 3: 40:39

And then there were things like so and you, they had your weight stacked up there. So I'd like I'm slapping 10s on and I'm you're running out of weights and I was getting flustered. So I I maxed out at 175 for the clean and jerk and I think I should have gotten 185, but it was. I was. You know that I ran out of time and my head was spinning. So all my training of breathe under control out the door, right out the door Right out the door, and when that was done you had to go.

Speaker 2: 41:16

it wasn't like you could wallow in that Cause you had. As soon as that six minutes was done, you were.

Speaker 3: 41:20

it was immediate next to next One minute and the next event started. Yeah, and the next event. It was a decent event for me and I just completely blew up on the wall ball shots. I, I, I, we had to do 40. Well it was, it was called farmers field. So you had to pick up a 70 pound, two 70 pound Jerry bags and run them down and go through a little loop and then put them on a pig and then you did burpees over the pig. Then you did 40 wall balls row and then came back through. So I did 40 more wall balls, carry the things around, do your burpees and finish. But the wall balls, the wall balls I just had. I must have had a dozen. No reps. It just got kind of comic on this. This is crazy, but oddly enough I beat Dave Hippenstiel on that event, so I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2: 42:28

But it was. It was the footing right, because you're sitting on turf as opposed to a hard floor. So as soon as you started to go forward you wouldn't get the same depth and the judges were like were vicious, it's like no rep.

Speaker 3: 42:41

Yeah, it was. So you're, it wasn't heavy, but you're tossing to a target. And if, if you just weren't steady, as soon as you lean forward, your hips came up and they no rep to you, and that's what. So you had to make sure the ball just came to you each time.

Speaker 2: 42:58

No.

Speaker 3: 42:59

You know, it is what it is.

Speaker 1: 43:01

So it wasn't a no rep on on squat depth. Is that what you're saying, or?

Speaker 3: 43:05

No, it wasn't no. So if the ball came forward, I would lean forward from it and actually my hips would come up above my knees and so they would no rep me on on squat depth. I see, okay, or I'd miss the target, or I had a lot of different flavors of no rep.

Speaker 2: 43:22

What next year? In the judging, during the judging course, there's just going to be a tape. They'd take Sean video and throw it up there. So how many?

Speaker 3: 43:31

One, sean. One of the interesting things was, though, in the mandatory athlete meetings, they invented new movement standards. So, for instance, on Helen, we did not do a Russian kettlebell swing, we did not do an American kettlebell swing. It had to be like above the brim of your hat, but they were super strict on your arms had to be totally straight. Wow, they just, they just invented that. On the pistols, you had to do five in a row on one leg, and if the non-working leg touched the ground, the previous rep became a no rep. So they just created stuff that had never been before, and I know amongst some of the older guys, the 65, they say, well, my arms don't straighten, this isn't as straight as they get, and it was an issue.

Speaker 1: 44:28

Right.

Speaker 3: 44:30

Cause they were Daniel Miller who won the age group. They were no repping him on, helen.

Speaker 1: 44:37

And I heard some of the standards weren't always the same from judge to judge. Yeah, some people got away with that kind of swing and that kind of didn't.

Speaker 1: 44:46

Yeah, you know a bit of that. That's always been. That's. I think that's a real big pain point for a lot of the CrossFit Games athletes in a real struggle for the judging. Like it's a tough job to create these events that are good tests, also entertaining. And then you have to think about all like the inside logistics on. Okay, well, how are we going to quality control this stuff? Like I'm not jealous of their job, like I don't envy their, you know, and especially now where you have a lot of those online people like Barbell Spin and Hiller Fit who are just got a, they just got like this macro lens on everything and they're calling out the rogue, like rogue and notational and the CrossFit Games and you know, and anybody who posts a squat, that isn't that's a hair above parallel, they just get lambasted. So it's tough out there right now.

Speaker 3: 45:38

Yeah, I think it was. As Trent pointed out, it was tougher on the coaches than the athletes. To be honest, I didn't look at a single other athlete during any of my events because you're so focused on executing your own, your own deal. I did on day two at the mandatory athletes briefing which is given by the head judge. He was really snarky, really short, really in a bad mood. So I think there were a lot of complaints to him on day one. He was not having fun and, to be honest, trent and I barely talked about it. I mean, it is what it is and again, we're not making our living doing this. So you know, we're 65, we're happy to be there. It's a cool event. Well, I get flustered about you know, something like that. I just thought it was very interesting that they created brand new movement standards just for the games.

Speaker 1: 46:33

Yeah, on the fly.

Speaker 2: 46:35

I'll lose it. And it, you know that's a good point too. Around you can't get caught up in it right and it, you know that's a big detraction of focus and capacity. When you suddenly you're frustrated because the other guys got got away with a couple, it's like no, no, we're just, we're here, it's our game, we got to do this, they. Whatever they tell us to do, we'll do, and if it's wrong, we'll fix it. But we're not going to go. This isn't fair or you got to do this a different way. It's like it's not our problem. Right Once you leave the games, maybe you have someone asked you, but in the moment it's always important to remember you just got to do it. Like, keep going.

Speaker 1: 47:13

So can you talk a little bit about what was going through your head on day one and then can you kind of talk about how that might have changed going into day two? Like you walk out on the field, are you, is your heart rate through the roof? Is your whoop a strap, you know, going crazy?

Speaker 3: 47:33

Well, I was disappointed that I got flustered on the clean and jerk and you know, time pressure got to me but, as Trenton pointed out, there was no time to focus because we had to go right into the next event. And so in the second event I came in sixth place after doing terrible on the wall ball. So I thought that was pretty good to see a four time champion finish after me. I said, okay, it wasn't that bad. And then at the end of day one we had Helen and I got third in Helen. So I felt pretty good. So it was nice to finish day one in a pretty good place.

Speaker 3: 48:14

Day two was started with gymnastics chipper, which was just you know, so I think it was an 18 minute time cap. The first event was box jumps, the second event was GHD sit-ups and the third event was pistols and I couldn't get one. So I had been working on pistols. I was trying to add like wedges under my shoes and I was working up to where I may be able to get a couple pistols. But given that I was already sore from the day before and, you know, less loose than I potentially could have been, I was getting zero pistols and you cannot quit Because in theory you could just quit and say I'm gonna save it for the next event. No, I had to attempt pistols and continue.

Speaker 3: 49:10

Attempt pistols for 15 minutes in front of the stadium full of people and a judge who's trying not to stick or do. It was pretty comical Cause I said, okay, I'm gonna try my left leg and she's going you can't. If you started with your right leg, you can't go to your left and you can't go to your right leg. So I had 15 minutes to try pistols on my right leg and I've got Trenton in the stands, I got my wife in the stands. Another friend from Toronto showed up this year but they were confused because the gymnastics that particular event, the gymnastics chipper ended with a handstand walk for the age group, for the master's athletes. So nobody finished it and they're sitting in the stands going no, this is my wife and my other friend from Toronto. They're going. What kind of a sport do they create where nobody can finish it? Nobody can even do it. So they were a little confused by the whole gymnastics chipper. But that was. I think you just have to laugh.

Speaker 2: 50:27

I was worried about it, but the good thing was yeah, the good thing was you finished that, you had a good ice bath, and then we're coming back with the 5K run.

Speaker 3: 50:40

No, but in between was another challenge, so we had the fifth. The second event on day two was pulling. So you had to. It was three rounds and again this was new movement standards. So pulling us.

Speaker 3: 51:03

I had actually practiced pulling a set of rope attached to a sled and I would pull one side, then I pull the other side and I pull it and I would you know you start to get it going. They said no, you can't do that. You have to set your feet even and just pull with your upper body. So although I had been practicing pulling a sled with a rope, I wasn't doing it according to the movement standard. But anyway, I digress.

Speaker 3: 51:29

The event was three rope climbs with a 17 foot rope, 10 deadlifts and it was 275 was the deadlift weight, and then you had to pull this sled on the rope and you had to move the rope and then go back and do it again. So the rope was interesting because it was on a crash pad. Again, as a rookie, I had never climbed a rope with a crash pad underneath. So you go to the gym, you know, the first thing you do is you jump up as high as you can for the rope when you're standing on a crash pad. That does not work. You can't jump at all. It's almost a negative effect. It's like you sink.

Speaker 3: 52:16

So anyway, I made a mistake that I've made before, so I you know. Obviously you're feeling good the first round. So I was. I was lazy and I wasn't using my feet enough. I climbed the rope three times because I could. I did 10 deadlifts. Get out in the rope. The sled pull went pretty well. I go back, climb the rope again, climb the rope again, and that was it. I could not get the third one. So then I had to just keep trying to get the third rope climb until that we hit the time cap. But when your arms go, that's when a 17 foot rope is pretty high.

Speaker 2: 52:56

And there's no jump.

Speaker 3: 52:57

You're on a crash pad, so it's not like you're jumping the first six feet.

Speaker 1: 53:01

Yeah, yeah so yeah, so that was a little frustrating For you know for for folks from our gym who are listening to this, who are used to doing a 12 foot rope climb, so imagine having no jump and then doing an extra five feet on top of that while people are watching you at the CrossFit Games like that's pretty spectacular and I could imagine how hard that was.

Speaker 3: 53:26

I could just say the first five times are easy.

Speaker 2: 53:34

It was interesting to watch a couple of the other experienced competitors because there was only two rookies, so the rest of these guys have all been there before and it was. They were so very smooth. They sort of reached up, gently, grabbed, wrapped their feet and away they went. It was sort of this interesting transition Because, as Kevin said, as soon as you start trying to bounce, you just went down. So you put all that effort to get right back to where you started again. It's like, well, what's, what's the point?

Speaker 3: 53:59

But yes, but somehow my brain was not making correction. So, once again, all the all, the all, my training didn't didn't show up on execution, but you live and learn. So it was a learning experience. That's what it is. We didn't lose, we learned, yeah that's right.

Speaker 1: 54:24

So you know it sounds like there was a lot of ups and downs. Can you talk a little bit about your highest moment?

Speaker 3: 54:38

Yeah, it was pretty fun. So later that day we had the 5k. In fact it was so hot out they moved it to the evening and I had a decent 5k and came in third. So that sort of salvaged it salvaged some of the pain from the first two events on day two and then on day three, the final event was called endure the Colosseum, so your indoors wasn't quite as hot and it was 50 cows on the ski erg, 50 cows on the echo bike, which is like an assault bike, then 75 double unders, then 50 more cows on the ski erg, 50 cows on the concept two bike and 75 more double unders.

Speaker 3: 55:31

So, and Trent and I both knew that this, this was, if there was any event that was going to work for me, this was the event. And we worked on a strategy which was like keep it. We didn't want to get to the first set of double unders, gas. So it's like, okay, keep it under wraps, the first 50k on each, the ski erg and the echo bike, get through the double unders. And then it was let the dogs go. You know, boom, we're going to go as hard as we can. And so when we pretty much executed that way, so we, we did the erg, we did the assault bike and the echo bike and fortunately I've done a bunch of training on the echo bike, so it wasn't new.

Speaker 3: 56:18

I and in fact, and I did it all by feel, so I did not look at the, didn't look at anything, I just put my head down and did it by feel and went and did the double unders. So I just did sets of 15. And we had agreed you know we worked on the double unders we'd strategize we're going to do sets of 15. And that's what we did, that's a 15. Then I just hammered the skier and then the concept to bike, you know it's that's, that's just like a regular bike. And so then I go out to do my second set of double unders and there's nobody else out there because you kept moving through the head, you went through a progression in the, in the coliseum, so I'm standing all alone in first place. So what did it?

Speaker 2: 57:06

because when you put the hammer like, you finished the first 75 and there's three of you and I don't. You didn't finish first, so you get to the next skier, again there's four, three or four of you. We did you notice that, or you were just heads down and doing it.

Speaker 3: 57:21

I did not see anybody because I was done at all. It was like I've done enough of that that I can do it by feel so again. I did not look at the only, I only glanced up to see if I was getting close to 50 cows.

Speaker 2: 57:35

And then when you, when you got onto the concept to bike, you didn't look either.

Speaker 3: 57:41

No, I just I was looking, they were looking at you. Oh, I knew that was definitely in my wheelhouse, so I just hammered that there was yeah you kept seeing the other athletes kind of looking over go what's going on over here.

Speaker 2: 57:55

This guy's just, and they were and you could tell like they were their heads up and they're spinning, especially on the concept too. There was three of them and they're motoring away and Kevin's got his head down and he's got a completely different cadence and he was just pounding.

Speaker 3: 58:11

Well, the concept too has a damper setting on it, just like the rower, and you got to set what your damper setting was, so guys could have been on a lower damper setting and a higher cadence.

Speaker 3: 58:22

But I knew I can push a big damper setting and was comfortable doing that, but it was a little so. Getting out into to do the final set of double unders and nobody else is out there was actually a little distracting because it's like shit, I'm in, what the hell do I do? This feels really uncomfortable and I got to about 50 for 45, like the third set of 15. And then I started missing and and the, the guy that won that event and also won the games, Daniel Miller, came out and he is behind. So he saw me and he put his head down and he did 75 unbroken double unders to beat me by five seconds, Three seconds. So, uh, I, you know, I, I kind of lost the plot a little bit there, right at the end.

Speaker 2: 59:18

But that was no, but it must have felt pretty cool, I felt really good about that event.

Speaker 3: 59:22

I felt good.

Speaker 2: 59:23

Yeah, only four of them finished it of nice.

Speaker 3: 59:27

This is quote the world championships and you're out in front. It's like, oh, hi, everybody Pick me. Hi, honey, I'm here. My wife said so at that. At that point I was in ninth place on the, you know the running, running total of the, the, the games, and apparently the announcer was saying and Kevin Cunningham, who's in ninth place, is out in front my wife, he kept saying ninth place, I'm like God dude we got it already.

Speaker 2: 1:00:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:07

Well, you know, playing up the underdog or something, you know, that's that I could. I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes and I'm thinking about like, yeah, how would I feel I'd be like, okay, all eyes are on me right now.

Speaker 3: 1:00:20

Yeah, to be honest, um, I I should have stayed focused and finished and won that, but I got a little. I my my focus got a little distracted.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

So it was cool because that was the only event where there was that much of a other than, yeah, that much of a disparity between the first, first three athletes.

Speaker 3: 1:00:50

Yeah. They're only you said only three of us finished. Is that right? Only four of you finished.

Speaker 2: 1:00:55

but when Kevin went out there there weren't. That was, yeah, it was unique because it was in the Coliseum and you can sort of imagine this like this guy's you know the announcers like who the hell is this guy and where did he come from? Because everybody else is back here working their asses off and this guy's out there doing double unders Like oh, and he's in ninth place. Like what happened?

Speaker 3: 1:01:18

But so one of the takeaways, though, is that, um you know, on on certain events I can compete, so I just have to go fix the domestic stuff, and so that gave me a lot of energy for next year.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

Yeah, okay. So now bringing back to you know, you were saying earlier that you're you've caught the bug. Is that what's? Is that exactly where it's coming from?

Speaker 3: 1:01:49

Yeah, one, I think it was a really cool event. And two, there's so much stuff I can fix. There's like so much room for improvement that I would feel, um, if I, if I didn't try to improve, I would feel like you know that's, that's kind of a dumb. Not going back is certainly not a given. I have to stay healthy. I have to do well. You know there's who knows how many strong people who were 64 years old this year who are aging up next year. There's a lot of variables that are going to come into play between now and next year, but I'm excited to have a whole bunch of things that I have to work on and can make improvements on. I mean, it's, it's, it's like it's, it's really fun.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

Yeah, and you know, like your season starts I mean it's not tomorrow, but like you're starting to think about it it's coming in February.

Speaker 3: 1:02:49

October night is my season, so I have we're going to Montana. As soon as we get back, I have to get another surgery and then, like 10 day or 15 days after the surgery is when I'm starting training for next year.

Speaker 1: 1:03:06

Amazing, it's in the calendar.

Speaker 3: 1:03:08

October night is when we start.

Speaker 1: 1:03:11

I love it. I love it.

Speaker 3: 1:03:14

So another question I have there's a sun's coming in, so I'm just going to change the yeah. There's nothing I do about the limits, Sorry.

Speaker 1: 1:03:28

So you know, when it comes to someone's journey anywhere, whether it's across the games, it's an Iron man, or if you're competing in in your particular sport or there's so much that nobody sees you know like all the hard work is always forged in the dark and there's the low moments and the. Is there anything that you can share about your personal journey that were obstacles and things you had to overcome and moments where you maybe you were questioning this, or is there anything in there that you can, you can, tell people about?

Speaker 3: 1:04:06

Well, I don't think there's anything unique. Everybody has injuries. For me, trying to get through the surgeries and minimize sort of the damage to my fitness was always a challenge. I think you know work-life balance and you know this. You now know this as well as anyone.

Speaker 3: 1:04:35

Iron man, for instance, just takes a lot of time. There's no shortcut. You can't. You know the Saturday's ride is going to take six hours and then maybe another ride and then a run after the ride. So six, seven, eight hours on a Saturday is time away from your family, and then you have to manage that, and usually a family is really supportive. And then one weekend they're not, and that might have been the weekend you really had to put in a big training effort, and you know so. Everybody deals with that and I don't think I'm different from anybody else. You just kind of, you know, you kind of get through it. But I do remember, you know this is the kind of thing that you'll never forget. One year my daughter, darcy, who's now a mother herself, came to me and she said Dad, when are you going to stop Iron man and spend more time with me? Yeah, so, and I'm sure you've had those discussions, sean, and you'll continue to have those discussions.

Speaker 3: 1:05:51

Yeah, you know, particularly Iron man takes a ton of time, kevin, I remember that I was just going to say the one if the one thing I've done different in the last year is a function of time. So I spend a lot more time doing mobility, a lot more time doing accessory work and a lot more time doing warm up and we used to do, you know, I used to get to red leaf 15 minutes before class because I needed a 15 minute warm up, and now I need like a 45 minute warm up. So that's, I couldn't do it if I was working a job full time.

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

Just wouldn't happen.

Speaker 3: 1:06:38

So so I erupted you.

Speaker 1: 1:06:44

Oh, it was just about Darcy. I think there was another story that you told me once about you were getting ready and you were. You know, it was a big day or something, and she came up and said Dad, instead of exercise, can you make me pancakes? Or something similar to that. Do you remember that?

Speaker 3: 1:07:06

Yeah, well, that was the big thing because I would go for a long run on Sunday mornings. But if I didn't go for a long run I'd stay home and make pancakes. So yeah, those are.

Speaker 1: 1:07:19

Those are hard. So I mean it. I think it's important for you know someone like you, who's who's who's made it to. You know multiple. It's not just a crossfit game, it's like you've been doing this and it's like it started with, like high level rugby and then and then triathlon and Ironman, and you know so you didn't you go after these big ones. So I just I thought it'd be really neat to hear, for people to hear, right, that don't typically, you know, you know, set their sight that high. Like you, you have to understand what Kevin's really doing in the dark and you know those, those sessions when he doesn't really want to do that but he does it. And of course, he's going to have those days where he feels great and like, yeah, this is what I want to do, and there's, there's just a ton of ton of work, ethic and sacrifice that goes into it. That, I think, is is tremendous and really respectable.

Speaker 3: 1:08:21

But there's also, you know I'm sure Trenton can can verify this there were tons of days when we got out of bed in Toronto and I didn't want to go to Redleaf but I knew Trenton was going to be there, so I had to go. Yeah, and it's, you know, and that's the beauty of community sports, because you don't want to let your community down, you don't want to let your team down. Yeah, and we had. You know, we had too much gossip to get through to not show up Right.

Speaker 2: 1:08:54

When you sit in the corner after class and tell stories about everybody else.

Speaker 1: 1:08:59

Yeah, you guys work through a smoothie and yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:02

Do you see what that person was doing today?

Speaker 1: 1:09:04

Oh man, yeah, yeah, I you know there's days where you know I get up and you know I'm like, oh, I know Trent's going to be there and I don't want to be there because he's there.

Speaker 2: 1:09:13

You know, there's, you know there might be a turkey costume involved, you never know, you never know.

Speaker 1: 1:09:24

The famous American Thanksgiving. Oh, yes, we had, we had, we had we had such a great community.

Speaker 3: 1:09:30

At that early class and even at the metric, we had a great, a great community and it evolves and you meet new people. I mean, the cool thing is I'm at a gym now where I'm like the newbie, so it's great, like the new guy on the block. Well, so when I I I showed up there, they were done with class, so it was just the one of the guys that was there, and there was one other guy there and it turned out that guy knew me and so I think he had told Jamie the owner oh yeah, I've, I've rocked with Kevin and he's crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:10:16

But, I basically walked in and I and it was early February and I said I needed Jim to do the open and and I also needed Jim that's going to support me through the quarter finals. And I said I'm turning 65 years, I'm turning 65 years old and I'm going through the games. You know, I was completely open. I said because I wanted to set expectations is I'm joining your gym because I needed. You know, I don't want to do this at home. I want the, you know, the camaraderie and the support of a gym through the open and the quarters and the semis. But from his standpoint, some of the guys that I've met I've met with him at some point some guy randomly walks in after class and says I want to join your gym, I want to go to the games. It's like what kind of a lulu is this guy?

Speaker 2: 1:11:09

But are people getting used to the fact that you insist that every time they greet you they say Mr Cunningham games athlete.

Speaker 1: 1:11:16

Games athlete.

Speaker 2: 1:11:18

Is it? Is it, is it just sort of it's not too much yet?

Speaker 3: 1:11:20

Yeah, so I tell you, so I've got, I've got, I've got eight shirts that say CrossFit games, Cunningham, CrossFit, Pittsburgh on it. I can't wear any of them to the gym. So yeah, so I wear. So I wear my shorts and my shoes and my headbands and everything says noble. So they are like like I robbed the noble store.

Speaker 1: 1:11:49

I wouldn't be able to wear that stuff. I mean, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:11:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:11:53

So I can't.

Speaker 3: 1:11:53

I have all these shirts. I wear them in my own gym and I, if I'm training with someone one on one, I can wear it, but I can't wear it anywhere else.

Speaker 1: 1:12:03

Well, you know, I'm I'm proud to say that you were gracious enough to give us one of your jerseys and we got that sucker framed and and we get it in like three weeks and I you know, so I'll be real proud for you to see that, and we're going to.

Speaker 2: 1:12:14

My suggestion was that everybody takes turn with wearing it for a class. We just cycle through, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:12:24

Which is still a good idea.

Speaker 2: 1:12:27

We just take. You know it's break glass If you, if you're out of, if you've missed the shirt, break the glass. Take the shirt where, just put it back.

Speaker 1: 1:12:34

Yeah, in an emergency here, there'll be a hammer beside you. Just break this Break and that'll get that's. That'll get you your bar muscle up that.

Speaker 3: 1:12:42

And you'll get to the games Guaranteed to screw up your wall balls.

Speaker 1: 1:12:50

So you know, like Kevin, when you, when you, you know your your five weeks out or six weeks out when you look back on it, do you have, are there any like you know, big takeaways for you? Like you know and I and I know you know, I know one of them. But like, can you talk about how you look at it now, being weeks out in your rear view, like what were your takeaways?

Speaker 3: 1:13:15

Well, one we already talked about is that I was just really happy with the process, regardless of where we ended up, and that also there is a there's a significant random component out of your control in terms of which, which events did they choose? And if they chose events, if two of the four semifinal events aren't in your wheelhouse, you're not going to the games because you're not going to get a good enough semifinal score. So there's there is a significant amount out of your control. So enjoy the process and if you're fortunate enough to get to the games, be grateful. That was a big takeaway. The other big takeaway, which I didn't realize beforehand, was being able to share it with Trenton was priceless.

Speaker 3: 1:14:10

So that was that was the best, and the the third piece, and I contrast this with going to the Hawaii Ironman, which I did in 2004. So that was my other age group world championship and I went to Hawaii by myself. I didn't have. I had a couple of friends there, but my family wasn't there, and you don't meet the other competitors. You sign up and you do the race right and at the end of the you know when I finished Hawaii. It's like you know. You're at the Hawaii Ironman, the pinnacle of the sport and I was done. I was tired, there was nobody there. I just like I grabbed my bike and I tracked back to my car and drove back to my hotel.

Speaker 3: 1:14:57

It was pretty depressing at the games and I was like I'm going to be in the game and then the other athletes as Trent pointed out, they would collect us and put us in a corral and then we'd go to the venue site and we'd have another 20 minutes to hang out. So I got to spend a lot of time with the other men 60 to 65 plus and the and the women 65 plus, and everybody was really cool and that was a neat feature of getting to know the other athletes and we just had a pretty good time. And that didn't exist in Hawaii at all. That was a big contrast for me and that's part I enjoyed.

Speaker 3: 1:15:35

And again, nicole told me you're going to spend a lot of time in the corral and it's pretty cool, you know, enjoy it. Nicole had great advice all across the board and she said you know, she basically said hey, look, you're at the games, you're already. Don't worry about what happens, you're already a winner. So enjoy the moment. And Trent and I got to benefit from Nicole's advice because we we had a good time, we enjoyed the moment.

Speaker 1: 1:16:06

Yeah, yeah, I love that you know so much about your philosophy, kevin. I think is is is so practical, pragmatic, but also, in my opinion, the truth, because I mean, like you know, there's so much glamorization and there's so much like we put this, you know this idea that we put things on these pedestals, and it's you know there's a lot of obsession about, like you know, the destination and and, and it's you do hear it like falling over the process and stuff. But it requires you to return to that and falling up with those basics and just remember that and just because you can get so lost in in in whatever it is ego or or fear or whatever these things are that drive anxieties to make us cling on to these, these pinnacle things that don't matter so much as the processes and stuff, then I just really really appreciated that, because one of the ethos that I'm really trying to instill in my affiliate is CrossFit is the bedrock of your training and your preparedness for life, not your happiness. The class that you come and do with us should not necessarily be the best hour of your day. It should seek to improve the other 23. Now, if it happens to be the best hour of your day.

Speaker 1: 1:17:40

I am smitten, I am so glad to hear that. But it's role and it's DNA is not that, it's to make life pop for you. And you know, and I and I, just the things that you talk about oh, you know you're about that and you know I'm someone who's about that got himself to so many high level events and I think and I just really hope people hear your message and follow what you know, how you do, your, how you do it.

Speaker 3: 1:18:13

Well, yeah, that's a good point, and you're an Ironman now, so you know exactly what I'm talking about. I coach a lot of first time Ironman people at a camp up in Lake Placid and no, and for me it's, it's, there's, there's five events are swimming, biking, running, nutrition and your mental state. And I focus on the mental state and I always tell first time Ironman I said there's going to be a point, particularly when you're early on in the bike after your swim. You're in the best shape of your life and you know you're feeling great and you're racing, and I said you got to dial it back. You're feeling really good, don't worry, it's not going to last for 12 hours and there's going to be another point.

Speaker 3: 1:19:03

When you are dying and you, you know everything is cramping, your stomachs, bloated, you know the sun's in your eyes, it really stinks and I said, just keep going because it won't last for 12 hours either. There's a lot of high points and low points and you, you, you asked where one of the dark spots was. I did have a pretty low point the first event of the quarterfinals. So again, the, the, the quarterfinals are four events in one weekend, so it basically, you know, takes up all of my weekend and I had two other people helping me, so it kind of ruined their weekend as well. And I, but I was responsible for the videotaping and the first event was hard. It had. It was, I think it was something like Toast to Bar or Burpee Pull Ups and it was overhead lunges with two dumbbells overhead. It was heavy and they had a. So I'm being and you had to make. So not only do I have to warm up for this, but then I have to make sure we get the video. So it's got everything in the gym, you can see the whole workout and then I have to. Okay, this is Kevin Cunningham. I'm doing quarterfinals, men 65 plus event number one. They even for the semis. We had to say a password at the end and had to be on the videotape, no editing. And it also had to make sure oh, could you see the meat, the meter on your rower? It was stressful, to say the least. So, and I'm not, and and I'm not a technician, so I'm using I think I was using Wadproof on an iPad, so we're setting that up and then I have to turn it over to someone else and make sure they don't hit the wrong button. So we're, and they said you, you, you could use grips for the Toast to Bar or the Burpee Pulls or whatever you're doing, but you couldn't use grips for the lunges. So I went ahead and I did the first round and I did all these Toast to Bar and as I go to do the second round of lunges, I had forgotten to take my grips off. So as I got to the end of that round, I realized it, and my judge hadn't realized it in my video. The other videographer hadn't realized it. I realized it, so I just stopped. Now, in hindsight, I should have just said oh, I have to redo those lunges. But I just had stopped and we have to start all over again. So now I had to start all over again and I'd already had 30 Toast to Bar in me. So this was a brutal workout. And we got to the last set of lunges and on overhead lunges and I'm under the time cap and I put him down and my judge said your heel was on the line, you have to go back and redo that. And I went back and I actually got like three quarters of a way through and I just crumpled. So it was a brutal.

Speaker 3: 1:22:08

First event it was a Friday night. We had just gotten the events Friday at five or noon or whatever. I was Friday night. So Saturday morning I'm up and I have to go to a workout, but before that I have to load the video and send it to CrossFit. And so I'm trying to load it onto YouTube and it won't work. And so now I'm frantically calling my daughter and saying how do I do this? And she said well, download this thing. And finally she said we had music playing in the background. That was copyrighted music and I think YouTube won't let you do that. So we ended up I have to. Then I downloaded Vimeo and I uploaded to Vimeo and then I sent the link from Vimeo to bottom line, as I got it done but not after, and also some of these things would take up to an hour to load to send a file.

Speaker 3: 1:23:01

So, needless to say, I was freaking out because I had to prepare for my next event and I already thought I had screwed up the first event. So that was a pretty low point. But again, it's just like Iron man, you just keep going. It turned out I didn't. I actually had a pretty good score on that first event, even though I was dying, and I learned how to do the video so it was slightly less stressful throughout the rest of the time. For the rest, but the quarters and the semis were really hard weekends Because you had four workouts in two days. You had to get people to meet, you set up, do all the taping, get everything set up, have the videos work. That was a ton of work and again, I had people helping me. Would not have had it without, without the help. I'm very thankful to the folks across the Pittsfield and my coach. They really spent a lot of time doing that.

Speaker 1: 1:24:02

The technology element does add a whole other level of cluster to it, because the rule of you know if it's going to go wrong, it's going to go wrong. And technology is so frustrating I can only imagine there are other stories, ranging to nightmare level of things failing and workouts not being. Yeah, I would find that really really hard as well.

Speaker 3: 1:24:30

So for the semifinals, instead of releasing the workouts on Friday right before they released them a few days early. But then on Friday they released a password for the first two events, on Saturday they released the password for the second two events. So you had to say the password into your video at the end and again your video can't be edited right. So at the end of a workout where you're just dead, you have to remember to look at the camera and say the password. I mean, that's kind of insane right?

Speaker 1: 1:25:14

There's so many things to remember. So you know, I want to make sure that we wrap up anything and trend. If you have anything, to ask it just before we move on. I'm curious because I also want to hear about your guys' adventure. That's coming up in a few days. But, Kevin, can you talk about a little about Adele and just the power of her music and how that's sort of you've drawn upon that power a bit?

Speaker 3: 1:25:49

That's a tough question, but it does go back to the community and the ability to have people that you share certain music with, and so you know, when I hear Adele, it takes me right back to 6am at CrossFit with Sean and Trenton and Turkey costumes and putting out.

Speaker 2: 1:26:15

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:26:19

Music can do that and CrossFit can do that.

Speaker 1: 1:26:25

This. I'll quickly share why. So there was sort of I think Adele came on it was like a remix or something and Kevin emphatically yells Adele, yeah, because he was fired up and I just I lost it. I thought that was the most hysterical thing and I never forgot it and it's that joke is endured.

Speaker 2: 1:26:50

So if you're wondering why the hell, I'm asking that's everybody, everybody's just turning in disgust or abuse of poor Adele yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:27:02

Oh, I love Adele. Very talented Kevin loves Adele. Yeah, trent, is there anything else that you want to add or no, no, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:27:12

Okay, just waiting to do my job again next year.

Speaker 1: 1:27:17

Yeah, nope, no, that's Kevin.

Speaker 3: 1:27:25

I thought I had Adele right here, but she went somewhere.

Speaker 1: 1:27:30

The LP. The LP.

Speaker 3: 1:27:36

Can't find it.

Speaker 1: 1:27:38

That's so good. Well, listen like that. It's a real treat to be able to finally sit down and listen to your guys' journey, and it's so great to hear that it's not ending and you're going to go for round two next year.

Speaker 3: 1:27:54

And please tell so. I don't even know, I don't think I've even discussed this with Michelle, but this is the Road to the open shirt. Yeah, and and so this was 2020, but I kept it in mind, the things I learned From Michelle about nutrition, and I and I reached out to tactic nutrition Two years later, in 2022, and they assigned me. You know, I was trying to get a Canadian coach, but they assigned me to an American who lives in Syracuse. But, but I have a tactic nutrition coach and that's due to Michelle. So, and it helped and I still have a tactic.

Speaker 3: 1:28:43

Yeah, no, that's fantastic I don't think, I don't think I've even discussed that with Michelle that the impact that she had on my nutrition journey.

Speaker 1: 1:28:53

Yeah, there, she'll be happy to hear that and you know there's always a particular warm smile on Michelle because you know I know the two of you guys still email back and forth dog pictures.

Speaker 3: 1:29:10

We're big dog people.

Speaker 1: 1:29:12

Yeah, so could we talk a little bit about what's coming up for you guys. What's next?

Speaker 2: 1:29:21

Kevin knows more than I do.

Speaker 3: 1:29:22

I just show up and carry well, so showing you know about this, because we hatched this, we hatched this idea back in red leaf and you were, you were I Think this went all the way back to before you were a family man, because you were actually entertaining the idea that you would come with us and of, course yes.

Speaker 3: 1:29:44

Trenton, I knew that that was never gonna happen because you were, you're about to be a new father. But the original plan was for Trenton and I to get dropped off dropped out of a float plane to a lake that's off the grid in Central British Columbia and we were gonna hike our way out. And that plan got fairly far along and was scheduled for August of 2020 and COVID hit About eight months before we were gonna go and, in fact, british Columbia shut down the outsiders and so that that that plan never happened and it sort of got shoved off the Front burner to the back burner and then we we found a little bit more of a shaken bake instant instant meal version, where there are a group of former green berets who have created a four-day trek in the tobacco route mountains of Montana and it's called the traverse, and so there'll be probably 10 or 12 of us and then eight or 10 Guides who are all former special forces people, and Trenton and I will be part of a four-person team and we will be doing trekking in Montana in a pretty remote area, no cell coverage, and We'll be getting leadership lessons along the way. They've already done. They've given us Personality tests to understand what kind of what kind of how we react best in certain situations.

Speaker 3: 1:31:35

And actually, before we go out, we'll all get together and and Figure out how we're supposed to interact as a team and we'll rotate leadership and we have to think. You know, we have to problem solve and figure things out as we go. So it'll be a little bit different from being in the wilderness just two guys. This will actually be more fun for Trenton because the original plan I know nothing and Trenton knows everything about the wilderness. So it's gonna be all on Trenton. Now we have some guys, he's gonna be able to relax a little bit and we're gonna have fun. What's cool, you know, is there's only the only.

Speaker 2: 1:32:17

The first day is an established trail, so the next two days it's an open route and it's up to us. So we understand that. That's one of the team challenges. Okay, how do we get from a to b? It's not just map work, it's how do you read the terrain, what? What can we do, what we don't want to do, how do we optimize? Or you know, how do we survive? And it's that altitude, so we're gonna feel like crap, it's gonna challenge us cardiovascularly. So I'm yeah, I'm super excited. We've been, we've been working on this since September, I think, is when we first started doing some of our pre-work. Kevin and I have to finish our, you know, individually. Look, I'm looking at my pack and pile of clothes and say, okay, I gotta get everything in there, everything possible for minus two degrees.

Speaker 1: 1:33:14

And why is it so cold, like you guys? Is this just because the elevation? And, yeah, they, they sent us an app and it shows that down, like below 6000 feet.

Speaker 3: 1:33:24

It's gonna be in Fahrenheit it's gonna be in the 60s, in the 70s, but where we are it's gonna be in the 40s, in the 50s and maybe even in the 30s, but so but it doesn't look like. We Doesn't look like there's gonna be any rain, yeah that'll be nice.

Speaker 2: 1:33:45

So, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:33:48

So, kevin, are you prepared to be Inattent with Trent and how are you about like, how comfortable are you with the fact that he sleeps naked?

Speaker 3: 1:34:03

It's all good because we're gonna be sleeping head that you know, toes to head. So I'll be down at his feet. As long as he washes his feet, we're good.

Speaker 1: 1:34:14

Yeah, so you better have good camp etiquette. Etiquette.

Speaker 2: 1:34:20

Nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm sure there'll be a few stories.

Speaker 3: 1:34:27

You know, trenton is a superlative cook, so yes if we have people that are gonna be making most of the food, but I think Trenton might be able to Spice things up a little bit. So looking forward to camp meals.

Speaker 2: 1:34:44

I'm gonna bring a spice pack, are you? Yeah, I gotta put that together tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 1:34:51

Oh, that's such a good idea. Yeah, I wonder, yeah, I could. That's a really good call, kevin. I can imagine Trent just saying move over, guys, like we're gonna Fix this year.

Speaker 2: 1:35:02

We'll see, as long as I don't forget something like I forgot my water bottles today.

Speaker 1: 1:35:09

Yeah, amazing on our end of it. Well, listen, guys, this has been a blast. I have three minutes till I gotta go wake up. Sadie, two floors up from here, but this was so great, so Just thanks so much for you know. Sitting down for 90 minutes and jamming out and talking about two dudes chasing adventures.

Speaker 3: 1:35:30

It's great catch up with you guys. We really appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, you bet.

Speaker 2: 1:35:35

More stories to come yeah more stories to come? Yeah, I was just gonna say so.

Speaker 1: 1:35:40

yeah, a few weeks after you guys get back from the Traverse. We want to talk about it and we'll make sure it's not too long from now so we can document everything that happened. You got it Awesome, guys. Okay, thanks so much, alright guys See you guys.

Speaker 3: 1:35:59

Yeah, thanks, sean.