Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to another edition of the Red Leaf Fitness podcast, a show dedicated to bringing you stories, interviews and conversations about living a healthy, resilient and productive life. I'm your host, sean Blinch, and I want to thank you for making time to listen to this episode today and, if you like what we're putting down, we would love it if you would follow, rate and share this podcast. All right, now let's get down to business. Welcome back to the Red Leaf Fitness podcast. On Friday, july 21st, at 7 o'clock 1 am. I'm joined with Ari. How are you doing? Today. Great, how are you?

Speaker 1: 0:44

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Super tired today.

Speaker 3: 0:47

Yeah, I'm a little sleepy.

Speaker 1: 0:49

Yeah, I'm a sleepy baby mold.

Speaker 3: 0:52

Oh.

Speaker 1: 0:53

But I'll wake up as we go. So thank you for joining us for our latest edition of Reading with Ari. We have a super exciting book called the Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter. Ari is going to help us do a deep dive into what this book is all about via 18 pages of book notes that she wrote.

Speaker 3: 1:14

Of course they would be super long and of course I've had multiple vials of summary of the summary and didn't help.

Speaker 1: 1:21

Summary of the summary. So if it's 18 pages, it was like the final.

Speaker 3: 1:26

Well, the first one was like 24. Amazing. So I did cut it down a little.

Speaker 1: 1:29

That's the best, Not much. But. That's the best.

Speaker 3: 1:34

Oh man, I can't.

Speaker 1: 1:35

Okay, so let's get into this book. So first of all, right off the bat, this book. I just want to comment a little bit on the book just before we get into what the book is about. This book was recommended to me by a couple people when I started getting into rocking, and it goes hand in hand. So if you're someone out there who's really getting excited about rocking, or someone suggested it to you or you've tried it with us or somewhere, it really is a good field manual and it brings a lot of the things that you know and love about rocking to life. So it gives you a little bit of a, it adds a lot of color to the outline of why rocking is really cool, and then it's a great commentary just about the ills of a lot of modern social life, and I call this book church.

Speaker 1: 2:32

So when Ari and I chose this one, I was really excited because this would be my third time through it and it was just telling Ari just before we started this recording that new things kept jumping out of it. Yeah, it was amazing. So that's what the book kind of meant to me. Do you want to talk about it?

Speaker 3: 2:49

Yeah, Even me going through it the second time to make notes, I was like oh, Did you read it twice? In a way not as detailed as the first time, but yeah, the second time I was like, oh, this is new, so I know what you mean about getting new stuff every single time.

Speaker 1: 3:05

When I was reading your notes too. It's interesting how it's like the things that you're highlighting on right, like things that you're picking up on. I'm like, oh, that's really cool, I know what she's talking about. That part didn't jump out to me, but seeing someone else's lens on it.

Speaker 3: 3:21

Yeah, it's different.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Yeah, it helps you get more and be like oh, this is because we always look at things through our point of views, right?

Speaker 3: 3:30

Yeah, we're the center of our universe. Yeah right.

Speaker 1: 3:34

So it's yeah, it's really neat, so let's get into it. So let's talk about it.

Speaker 3: 3:43

Yeah. So Michael poses this questions. Humans evolved to seek comfort, but it has modern society made us too comfortable, which I think we would both agree that yes. So he argues that the cozy conveniences of the Western world would harm our health and happiness by depriving us of challenges that our ancestors regularly faced. He explains that crucial discomfort is like spending time in nature. Fasting, regular exercising are becoming increasingly obsolete in our temperature controlled indoor world, where all of our slightest desires can be remedied with a click of a finger. So the whole book. He sort of tells the story of his 33 day expedition to Alaska with two other guys. And I was telling Sean what I really liked about the book is that it's not just like a textbook with all this him throwing research at you and all these things. He kind of ties all this in through this story of this expedition that he's going on. So it just makes the book extra interesting.

Speaker 1: 4:37

Can I make a one comment just about what you were just touching on, just how it's a look at a lot of our modernity, and I have this highlighted piece right from the book that I just wanted to read. He says the modern comforts and conveniences that now most influence our daily experience cars, computers, television, climate control, smartphones, ultra processed food and more have been used by our species for about a hundred years or less. Okay, it gets better. That's around.03% of the time we've walked the earth. Include all the Homo so Abilis, erectus, eider, burggenesis, neanderthalesis and us, and open the time scale to 2.5 million years and the figure drops to.004%. Constant comfort is a radically new thing for humans, that's wild right.

Speaker 1: 5:44

Holy shit.

Speaker 3: 5:46

The table.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:48

Yeah, because we would think that this is like oh, this has always been around.

Speaker 1: 5:52

For sure.

Speaker 3: 5:52

Like no, this is extremely new. Yeah, no wonder we don't know how to deal with it, right? Yeah, like he grew up in a family where alcohol was a big thing and he sort of got into alcohol and that he describes that as his comfort blanket. He says that it killed the stress around his job, it ended boredom and numbed him to sadness, anxiety and fear, and then he realized that if he didn't stop that he would probably die early. I also love the way that he came to the realization that it wasn't just alcohol that was his comfort blanket, that it was basically his whole life. So he says I awoke in a soft bed in a temperature controlled home.

Speaker 3: 6:28

I commuted to work in a pickup with all the all the conveniences of a luxury sedan. I killed any semblance of boredom with my smartphone. I sat in an ergonomic desk chair staring at a screen all day, working with my mind and not my body. When I arrived home from work, I filled my face, with no effort, highly caloric foods that came from Lord knows where. Then I plopped down on my overstuffed sofa to binge on television streamed down from outer space. I rarely, if ever, felt a sensation of discomfort. The most physically uncomfortable thing I did exercise was executed inside an air-conditioned building as I watched cable news channels. Like that's basically most of us.

Speaker 1: 7:02

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 7:03

If like, how comfortable are we?

Speaker 1: 7:06

And I think it's also, yeah, so comfortable, and I think it's also really important to balance this sort of argument with.

Speaker 1: 7:16

He does talk about like this this is not a book about how sitting in a comfortable chair is bad, no, it's also just getting excited about the other balance and that how we are born to move, born to be wild, and I have another highlight here that I think just fits in. So Michael goes on to say comforts and conveniences are great, but they haven't always moved the ball downfield in our most important metric, being happy, helpful years, Perhaps existing only in our increasingly over comfortable, overbuilt environment, always obeying our comfort drives, has had unintended consequences and caused us to miss profound human experiences. There are conditions that humans evolved to live in and experiences we were meant to have that are no longer germane to our lives. This has undoubtedly changed us, often not for the best, and while that is slightly slanted, also towards the like, we're way too comfortable right now. He does make some really good points about no like modern comforts are are good. I still want to sleep in my like amazing mattress.

Speaker 3: 8:25

Exactly In my air conditioning, that's so true, and it's like we evolved to seek comfort like shelter, warmth, food, because ultimately, that's how we survived. So if we didn't seek those, we wouldn't be here talking. That's right, so it's. It's not that it's. Oh, this is like a huge bad thing. It's like it's a balance, but yeah yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 8:45

It's just about getting excited about, about getting uncomfortable, and just like it's incredible how good you feel after getting uncomfortable for a little bit.

Speaker 3: 8:53

Exactly when you're able to fight through that. Yeah, yeah, um. He also says that, like if you look back at our ancestors, they lived in constant discomfort. It was either too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry, too windy, too snowy. They were always hungry, they were bored all the time, and then now we're never bored. And I think it's so funny how he says that boredom was pronounced dead on June 29, 2007, after the invention of the iPhone.

Speaker 1: 9:19

That's a good line and I'm like that's so true. Yeah, here lies boredom.

Speaker 3: 9:24

Yeah, and the iPhone.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Yeah, here's the epitaph that was. That was a mic drop. I was like when I read that at first time I was like, oh shit, that's true. How true is that.

Speaker 3: 9:35

And like even though all these comforts are great, um, they have also allowed us to live longer. But even though we're living longer, we're living more overweight, depressed, anxious, suffering from all these addictions. So we're having to, although we're enjoying these comforts, we also have to deal with the side effects of being so comfortable.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Yeah, and I learned in in our in our last review in that book Outlive that uh recently this is the first time in uh in the last hundred years, I think it was, where the life expectancy of Americans uh slid back. Yeah. It was. It was on this like steady decline and it's actually rolled back, I think, three years and it includes a lot of this stuff. Actually, I think it's really driven by like heart disease and all the stuff which can be uh uh linked back to lifestyle and and and all that stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:24

So it's interesting.

Speaker 3: 10:26

Um, there's a very interesting concept that he introduces, called prevalence induced concept change, which is essentially problem creep. So as we experience fewer problems, we don't become more satisfied, we just lower our threshold for what we consider a problem. So we end up with the same number of problems and we start to look at new problems that weren't even problems to begin with. So it's like oh, this, I solved this. But there's this other thing that wasn't even a problem, but now it is.

Speaker 1: 10:50

This is literally the every comment section on every Facebook or Reddit or where you know where.

Speaker 3: 10:55

things just spiral Like it's literally first world problems. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:02

Yeah. And then he compares this to a similar concept, comfort creep where when a new comfort is introduced, we adapt to it and old comforts become unacceptable, like. A good example of this is like when there was the introduction of stairs Okay Great, we can get from this level to that level. And then we got escalators, or like why would I take the stairs if I can take the escalator? And then I was like, why take the escalator If I can take the elevator? It's like yesterday's. This yesterday's comfort is today's discomfort. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:31

Which is incredibly true. Then he sort of goes into introducing some main characters in this trip, mainly Donny, who is a hunter, and I told you this as soon as I started reading the book. Donny completely changed my views on hunting. I want to talk about that.

Speaker 3: 11:47

Yeah, it was definitely one. I wouldn't say that I was completely against it, but like if you had said, oh, I want to go on a hunting trip, I would have definitely been like no, like hell, no. But then just the way he described it, like really got to me. Yeah, talk about it.

Speaker 3: 12:04

Yeah, and I think that's the way that, specifically when he said how he knows exactly, like he knows the details of the animals life, he knows where it came from, like how it's living, like all these things where we we just go to the grocery store, pick up something in the meat aisle, pay for it, eat it, and we don't even stop to think about, like, what animal is this? Like, where did it come from? Like, how, how did it live? How was it taken care of? What did it eat? Like, we don't know anything, which is it's so true, so we don't even feel any guilt. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 12:38

And it's like I'm all against hunting, but here I am eating meat every single day and do I ever feel guilt for grabbing that and paying for it and eating it? So I was like that's just so true.

Speaker 1: 12:48

There's. You know there's so much into it and this is such a political social issue that a lot of people that has a lot of complexity and a lot of layers. Both of these things can happen at the same time to feel heavy about the death of the animal that you're eating, but also needing it and being okay with where we, where we are positioned in in the um, in the food chain, and that's not okay for millions of people and they have a very deeply rooted connection and which drives their veganism or the vegetarianism, and I actually have a ton of respect for that. So if you're somebody who has compassionate reasons and you do not eat meat, you have my full respect. Of course, I don't necessarily think that that's the healthiest, but that's my opinion and that I you have to respect To each their own, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:47

Like yeah, so I think that there is credible. If being vegetarian was the healthier way, I would do it. Yeah, and until the research says that, and so that's my life, but I respect other people's approach on it.

Speaker 3: 14:03

Yeah, and not all hunting, of course, is what I'm saying I agree with. Like he goes, like when he does hunt, it's like like this one, like it was a 33 day expedition, Like he literally looks for the eldest in the group, the one that's like.

Speaker 1: 14:15

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:16

Bringing everybody sort of down. And if he does kill the weakest, like the oldest, then the younger ones can live longer. So, like he has all these things that he keeps in mind, it's not just oh, let me go hunting and shoot. The first thing I see.

Speaker 1: 14:29

It's like, it's like me. I'm like the old duster around here. One day they're going to take me out and I'm holding everybody back. Okay, so the tribe can just continue.

Speaker 3: 14:37

You know what I mean. That's never going to happen.

Speaker 1: 14:39

They're going to take me out to pasture. It's the cycle of life.

Speaker 3: 14:43

Take Shawn down.

Speaker 1: 14:45

Ari Okay.

Speaker 3: 14:46

Somebody has to replace him, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:49

Someone's in the bush right now.

Speaker 3: 14:51

Wait in the Take you down.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Yeah, I love how deeply you connected with that because I really related. So this was probably the second time where I really thought about it. I got into understanding like hunting and stuff through the paleo diet when it was really really big about probably 10 years ago, rob Wolf and the Paleo solution and forgetting the other guy who actually wrote the first paleo book, but the idea that we have to have a connection to the animal. So what that did was that first made me be okay with spending way more on pasture raised animals. So KFO meat and stuff is still not okay for myself and my family. I think it's filled, I think it's, I think these animals are sick, unhappy and I think it's mean and cruel. So, first and foremost, you know we try to make sure that we are.

Speaker 1: 15:53

We vote with our money and we pay 30% more, sometimes more than that. So we do get a pasture raised stuff and it honestly it feels good for my conscious, it actually tastes better.

Speaker 3: 16:05

Oh, it tastes way better.

Speaker 1: 16:06

And if that's not realistic, that's okay too, but that was just that was a sacrifice, but if you can yeah, then yeah so.

Speaker 3: 16:11

Of course.

Speaker 1: 16:12

Yeah, yeah, I thought this was cool. I wanted to take a second and just sort of you know linger on how it was making you feel.

Speaker 3: 16:20

And it's like it's hard to explain it because, like I even brought this up at home and my mom was completely against it.

Speaker 1: 16:26

Is she vegetarian?

Speaker 3: 16:27

No, she's not. But like the whole hunting going out and like killing an animal, like it's so hard to explain it, I'm like he just does a fantastic job in the book. Yeah. And I'm like I can't describe it to you Like read the way that he talks about it, and I even watched his YouTube video, like the one that Michael recommended about like oh, I didn't watch that.

Speaker 1: 16:42

That's cool yeah.

Speaker 3: 16:44

And I was like, yeah, like this just reinforced it even more. Yeah. Yeah, look up, donnie yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:51

I meant to. Yeah. Of course you did? You're the best.

Speaker 3: 16:55

Watch it. It's worth it. So he ends up going on a smaller hunting trip with Donnie, and then he says that after this trip he had a discomfort induced buzz and he kept thinking about the trip and later he realized that this trip was actually a type of misogy. So this is the part of the book where he introduces this concept, where he learned it from Dr Marcus Elliott. And the way that Elliott describes misogy is like this.

Speaker 3: 17:19

He says over a species, hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, it was essential for our survival to do hard shit, all the time, to be challenged, and this was without safety nets. These challenges or rites of passage could be from hunts getting resources from for a trip, moving from summering to wintering grounds, and so on. Each time we took one of these challenges we'd learn what our potential is. In modern society, however, it's suddenly possible to survive without being challenged. You'll still have plenty of food, you'll still have a comfortable home, a good job to show up to and people that love you, and that seems like an okay life, right.

Speaker 3: 17:52

But then he says imagine a big imaginary circle. Let's say your potential is this big circle. Then imagine a dinner-sized plate in the middle of this big circle. That's where most of us live. In this small space, we have no idea what exists on the edge of our potential and by having no idea what it's like to live out on the edge, we really miss out on something vital. So Elliot believes that our innate evolutionary machinery gets triggered when we go to this zone, when we really do hard things, when we explore the edges of our comfort zone. So he basically calls Masogi, which is the exploration of the edges of human potential, which was such a cool concept to read about, and I was even like maybe I should tell Sean that we should go on a Masogi before we do this podcast, which we should still do, but anyways.

Speaker 1: 18:37

So you know I want to talk about Masogi a little bit. So like this is well, I definitely think it's a really cool concept and I like the idea. This is the part of the book that reaches me the least.

Speaker 3: 18:49

Okay.

Speaker 1: 18:50

And the reason for that is because I think I default to. I think I default to the most practical side of things and so, like I try to look at things really critically and you know, when I think about even the third time reading through it, I was like I don't like this. And it's not that I don't do Masogi.

Speaker 3: 19:14

Yeah, I was going to say you out of everybody. I was like who I would identify with this.

Speaker 1: 19:19

Yeah, because I do.

Speaker 3: 19:21

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 19:22

You know I seek that out. I like things to be as hard and shitty as possible because I get there. I reap the best rewards out of that. But the problem with that is that you and I are outliers. We're 0.01%. This makes sense to us. Most people look at that and be like absolutely not.

Speaker 3: 19:44

Yeah, like there is no way.

Speaker 1: 19:45

You know, yeah, you just think about the general population and like, could you imagine if everybody was just out on Masogis?

Speaker 3: 19:54

Yeah, which, by the way, like just an easier way to look at. It is just like a kooky challenge which he says so like something that you do to challenge yourself. That's not something like I'm going to run a marathon because you would train for that and it's not something you're supposed to train for. It's supposed to be like you see a mountain and you're like you know what? I'm going to climb to the top of that mountain. Like do I, can I, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 20:13

But I'm going to do it, so that's just basically what it is.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Exactly, and it's this idea that you have a 50-50 chance of completing it, Super rewarding and if you're out there doing it, like you know, chapeau like right, love it, but that's I. Yeah, I just I don't think it's something that's like I don't know, I guess I'm biased by like okay, how do I make this work for the most amount of people?

Speaker 3: 20:36

And I just feel like that's a really extremely to approach stuff Like the one thing that I did like about the concept is the idea that it's supposed to be you against you Like. It's not supposed to be again like a marathon, because then there's a time to that and you want to compare it with somebody else. This is supposed to be such a quirky, kooky challenge that you can't compare it to anybody else and you're not supposed to post on social media about it or anything. So it's like am I willing to do this if nobody's watching, which that part I thought was very like really good.

Speaker 3: 21:06

Yeah, cause we do a lot of things because people are watching, right? So the Hawthorne effect.

Speaker 1: 21:11

Yeah, yeah and yeah, and I like it for that reason too, and you know, I, as somebody who is a misogiest, and I will be, and I'll be doing bigger and crazier and weirder things my entire life I love it for that reason too.

Speaker 3: 21:29

Yeah, and it's just a way to push us outside of our comfort zone. So anything that pushes you out of that. So yeah, all for it.

Speaker 1: 21:37

And you know, and I guess my last point on that is that what is what would be considered my Masogi? Would be very different than mine, yeah right, Like actually you and I might be similar. Yeah, we're a bit of the crazy. But it means if somebody was like you know, I want to climb all three flights in my apartment building. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:03

And they've been fucking scared and it can be anything and so it's a big concept. It's personal, yeah, yeah. The next section on cities. Okay, very, very good section too Love it, me too Lots here.

Speaker 3: 22:21

Lots here. So basically he goes into details about all the preparation he had to do for this 33 day expedition, like learning first aid skills, hunting skills, getting physically prepared, everything to make sure that he would survive. So he introduces this idea that our brain has a trance like, or autopilot sleep walking mode. So once we've done something over and over our mind kind of zones out of whatever old thing it's doing. So it's kind of like when you're driving in the same route every day and you feel like you've zoned out the entire time I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but like you're driving to work or something like how did I even get here? Yeah.

Speaker 3: 22:54

I remember myself driving here. So he says that basically our brain switches off when we're learning something new or when we're basically challenging ourselves. That's the moment where our brain kind of switches off this autopilot mode and time seems to slow down. And he says that's why when we're kids, time seems to be so slow, because everything is new and that's just basically one big benefit of stepping out of your comfort zone and learning new things.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Absolutely. And also, don't you find that like tell me if you've ever experienced this? You're driving home from work or something right, or driving to work and all of a sudden you took a slightly different street. You're like where am I? And like, have you ever taken that street and been like suddenly delighted? Yeah yeah, that happens to me all the time. And like if I walk home a different way and I'm like, oh, look at that tree.

Speaker 3: 23:46

I haven't seen that tree before.

Speaker 1: 23:48

That's nice. So it has very funny, small but impactful things to it.

Speaker 3: 23:58

So we're not only living in this autopilot mode, but we're also living in overly built, overpopulated environments. We're just jamming ourselves into cities, and cities, of course, offer a more comfortable and convenient life. Today, you can basically move into a big city apartment and decide to never leave because you have access to water, to food, medication, anything you need Basically, if you have internet access, you can order everything from your phone, which is insane. There's actually he mentions a group in Japan where they don't leave their house. There's groups of people there who've never left their house for like the past seven years, which is, I would go insane. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:35

Yeah, Because that's just ridiculous. But he does say that studies even show that even dirt poor people who live in rural China actually report being way happier than people who are wealthy living in cities in China, which just shows how much living in cities can actually increase our rates of depression, and I thought this one part was just amazing. So he uses two different theories to basically explain why there's this city country happiness gap, why people are happier in the country compared to the city. The first one is can be summarized by this number, 150, which is called the Dunbar's number. So basically that number represents a group of roughly 150 people or fewer. That seems to be the ideal community size. So this is the average population size of hunter-gatherer, tribes, stone age groups, villages and ancient Mesopotamia. It's also the same number of people that we actually know Like.

Speaker 3: 25:33

If you look at your Instagram followers or people you follow, you probably have like a thousand people that you follow. Really, if you come, it comes down to about 150. They've done several studies. That's the amount of people that we actually know and can sort of consider friends, which is so freaking interesting. He even talks about a company that lower their offices to 150 employees and they notice a huge difference. So that's how you can compare. So cities there's, of course, way more than 150 people, and there seems to be this increase in happiness when communities are very small. I wonder how many people you have. I really have you count?

Speaker 1: 26:09

Are you?

Speaker 3: 26:09

gonna kick somebody out. Are you like at 160 and you're like, well, 10 of you are gonna go.

Speaker 1: 26:16

Yeah, then the names are the following.

Speaker 3: 26:20

It's basically the hunger games 10 of you are gonna have to fight for a spot.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Oh, that killed me.

Speaker 3: 26:29

So it's so interesting how that's like even a thing like several studies show that the number is around 150.

Speaker 1: 26:34

Yeah, Dunbar's is really interesting. There's actually a gym in Toronto and they're wonderful. They're called Stagold and oh, they're called. Stagold yeah. Yeah, and so the wonderful folks that launched that. One of their founding principles was all about Dunbar. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: 26:53

Yeah, and so I thought that was a really neat concept. Now I humbly want to admit that Redleaf does not actually have 150 members. In our CrossFit sphere and our extended community, we do yeah, yeah Through like personal training and everything else. But yeah, we are. So if you're wondering if you're gonna be on that cut list.

Speaker 3: 27:19

We gotta You're not. Yeah, we actually have a few open spots. Yeah. Don't worry, nobody's getting cut. I left, so I kind of opened up a spot, but I'm still part of the general community.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ari had a move and our hearts have been shattered into pieces.

Speaker 3: 27:40

But Sean is stuck with me for life. I already told him.

Speaker 1: 27:42

Yeah, well.

Speaker 3: 27:43

I told him it's reading with Ari, not reading with Sean.

Speaker 1: 27:45

That's correct. That's correct.

Speaker 3: 27:47

Basically, he has to have me on here.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Yeah, and also, let's not forget, I'm gonna be taken out for being old at some point.

Speaker 3: 27:54

So somebody's gonna have to take the spot.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Can we talk a little bit about how, just looking off your notes here, how Ari just summarizes living in cities is actually leading to an increase in depression? People who live in cities are 21% more likely to suffer from anxiety and 39% more likely to suffer from depression than people who live in rural areas. Yeah, that's a pretty big stat.

Speaker 3: 28:22

Yeah, those are huge numbers and I think it sort of ties into the next section that I put there, which is basically living in a what they're calling a loneliness epidemic. Like, even though we are living in these cities that are so crowded, like, most people feel lonely, which is insane, because we're so connected, like as he says in the book, he's like we're never truly alone anymore because you have the TV on or you have your phone on you. So, even though we are so connected, we've never felt more alone, which is incredibly sad and insane to think about.

Speaker 1: 28:56

Yeah, Do you feel lonely?

Speaker 3: 28:59

Me? No, I actually don't. I feel like I have a pretty good group of people who don't make me feel lonely, which is great. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:08

And it shows, I think one of the most, one of the things that I think everybody knows that's really starting to climb up the ladder of things that make someone healthy, is the quality of some of one's connections with others, and so it's not really about having 12 best friends. That makes a difference, with the studies show, is that it matters about the three or the four people you have the strongest connection with. But I'll admit I feel loneliness, and not now. Good.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Not generally, but on a weekly basis, I do feel some loneliness and I think that there's a lot to do there with men. As they age, we start to isolate ourselves, and this is a whole other topic by the way it's a big ballerin about male isolation as they age and how it's connected to depression, and so the reason why I bring it up is because I've gone on the offense on it and so things that are really helping me are reaching out, putting extra effort into making sure I'm connecting with other men and women.

Speaker 3: 30:30

We don't shut up and we talk to each other every day.

Speaker 1: 30:32

It's amazing, women are interestingly really good at this and the studies show that throughout their lifespan they not only maintain relationships, but they get better at it as they go, and men just seem to just sort of isolate. And yeah, it's pretty staggering, that's really interesting. Yeah, there's a lot there, and there's a book that we should both read. I haven't started yet. It's called. I Don't Want to Talk About it. Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:59

And it's about the men just thinking that you're supposed to be the strong, stoic thing and feelings aren't for you and you just so we should. That's a sidebar, but the main reason why I was bringing all this up and being really honest about having feelings of loneliness from time to time is that my times when I go and get uncomfortable, when I'm rocking or probably a better examples when I'm on really long rides or my really long runs, I feel early enough. I used to suffer a lot from loneliness, unlonely. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 31:40

Yeah, uh, what I I bring in. It allows me to uh pull the, the, the thorns and the cobwebs off of you know, because you don't always think straight, and I think what it does is it gives me perspective and clarity.

Speaker 1: 31:56

It gives me a lot of clarity, yeah and uh, sometimes we suffer a lot in our own mind unnecessarily, and it shows me. It's like it reminds me of my deep connections and uh, I feel so present and one of the coolest things is, um, being alone with your thoughts is a really good place to be.

Speaker 3: 32:15

Oh, so, good, yeah it's such a good place to be, and that's what he talks about. He's like you don't want to feel lonely, but you do have to learn to be alone, like you have to learn to be with yourself and get to know yourself and all these things, because then you bring that to relationships. You don't just try to be what people want you to be. You've learned so much about yourself by being alone but you actually bring your authentic self to others.

Speaker 1: 32:38

Yeah, yeah, you know the whole. I don't want to be alone with my thoughts.

Speaker 3: 32:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:42

People really mean it.

Speaker 3: 32:43

They do. They do Cause it's. It's a scary place to be right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:46

There's like, it's like a layer cake. The first layer of your thoughts are horrendous, but you get one layer deeper and it's calm. And then you get one layer below that and it is um Zen, it is it's flow.

Speaker 3: 33:01

It is like even after reading the book he talks about um, like how we're always trying to be distracted. Like if you go on a walk, you put on your headphones and you're listening to a podcast, you're listening to music. Like we're so afraid of just being in our own thoughts and like after that I started to just take my dog out on walks without headphones.

Speaker 3: 33:17

I'm like I'm just going to walk and, you know, take in the sounds, take in my own thoughts, and I thought it was so good. I'm like this is even better, Like I would think about like relationships and like stuff that I have to do, but just like. And then you'd go deeper and deeper and you're like I don't even know how I got to this thought, but like I'm happy. Yeah, Things are good in here, Exactly.

Speaker 1: 33:37

Think and you don't think they are.

Speaker 3: 33:39

Yeah, Like you're because you're so many times we're just negative about everything that's going on, right.

Speaker 1: 33:45

It's so easy to be negative about things that are going on.

Speaker 3: 33:47

Yeah, and this actually ties into a study that they did in um University of Virginia. They had a quarter of women and two. Well, they had a group of people and they found out that, um, if you ask these people whether they wanted to be alone in a room or they wanted to be with the researcher, a quarter of women and two thirds of men chose to shock themselves rather than to be alone, which?

Speaker 1: 34:09

is. That's insane.

Speaker 3: 34:11

Like that's how afraid we are of being alone. And there is this like weirdness to it where if we see somebody just sitting down, not looking at their phones, not doing anything, just sitting there, we find it weird. We're like what are you doing? It looks odd, like we're programmed to think that that's weird nowadays, because if you're standing in line or you're doing anything, you're on your phone, like you're not just sitting there, like you're not just not doing anything. We're never not doing anything, which is insane.

Speaker 1: 34:37

Here's an example. How awkward does it feel? I have two good examples. Number one how awkward does it feel to go and sit in in uh in a restaurant and be a table for one, please?

Speaker 3: 34:46

Nobody does that. Yeah, I do it. You do it. That's amazing.

Speaker 1: 34:49

Yeah, I'll sit and I'll have some padtie. I'm a damn cell.

Speaker 3: 34:52

I love that.

Speaker 1: 34:53

It's the best here's. Here's the most unthinkable one, which I haven't done in years, which I used to do. Hi um, I'd like to get a ticket to see, uh, this movie, I know.

Speaker 3: 35:04

Which is it's very funny, because if you think about it like when you go to the movies, it's not like you're talking to anybody. Yeah, so really, if you're with a group of 20 people or you're by yourself, it does not change the experience at all. Okay, you can talk about it after, but like during the actual watching you're not talking.

Speaker 3: 35:24

So really it is like a one person experience sort of yeah, and yet we don't ever do that, like, if we want to see a movie, it's like I gotta figure out what I'm going to go with. Okay, nobody can go or nobody wants to go. Okay, I guess I'm not going. Not going to see them, I'm going to wait till it shows up on TV or something. But like, why not just go by yourself? Right, are you the best?

Speaker 1: 35:42

You know, you know about my future plans.

Speaker 1: 35:46

If you're listening to this, you probably don't, but you will see now, and I just when, when Ari was talking about this study, about People would rather shock themselves and be alone. And there's, there's, there's, lots of things that you can do, lots of examples like this. This is my life's work, you know, as I've, as I've, as I'm getting older in my, in my career as a trainer and as a coach, what's what I'm noticing is, um, I'll give you a glimpse into where I'm going with with myself professionally Uh and um, it's about this. May you always be inspired about the problems you're solving. And so what I realized is like what's my impact, what's my legacy about my? My job on on on this earth and in this gym is not necessarily to solve somebody's toast to bar problem. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:32

What I believe that my work is to do is to actually uh, is to, is to make the connection, to, first of all, identify, uh, the individuals that would feel that way. That is, I have a soft spot in my spot in my heart for somebody, uh, who feels isolated, who feels stuck in life, who feels like you know what I'm, you know what I'm saying. So this, this subsection of people, uh, these are the. This is where my heart is, and I want to bridge them to fitness. I'm not the solution, but I'm I'm a damn important one.

Speaker 1: 37:07

And and and that's that's where my life work is taking me is like, is books like this and having conversations like this and and and just sort of uh, platforming these ideas at any possible way I can with everybody who will fucking listen to me and who wants to come and jam and and and get into this kind of stuff, and so you know, uh, I know that this is my 17th tangent.

Speaker 1: 37:33

No and we're only on page six of your notes here. Uh, but I just I thought that you know. I wanted to say that.

Speaker 3: 37:39

I think it was a great tangent and needed to be said so we can all be on board. I'm so switching uh topics a little. Um, during this expedition, michael discovers true boredom, since, you know, it was killed by the iPhone. Um, but then he discovers it on this trip. And it's actually funny because he starts the chapter by describing the nutritional value of a cliff bar in very detail, as well as what's written on the tag of his jacket. And he says he even comes up with, uh, his Christmas shopping list for the next few years. Because he's that board, there's absolutely nothing to do.

Speaker 3: 38:10

He's in the middle of Alaska and it's so true, we don't know how to be bored. And he says that, thanks to phones, tv, computers and everything around us, we're always just doing something. He says that the average American each day touches his phone 26,2617 times and spends two hours and 30 minutes staring at their phones. Well, heavy users users spend more than four hours. So if you live another 60 years and you spent, on average, three hours on on your phone, you'll have spent seven and a half years looking at your phone, and that's just absolutely insane. Whoa Right Cause, like if you, if you look at your, if you go on your phone and you look at your screen time, I can bet you If you're the average person, you're up there in the three hours for sure. Yeah, um, which is it's just nuts.

Speaker 3: 38:55

But he says that in today's society, boredom is seen as a bad thing, like if you listen to podcasts, you always hear them talk about top performers or life hackers and how doing nothing is akin to dying. And then we must perform all of their complicated rituals to achieve optimum focus, and I'm guilty of that for sure. I've watched so many YouTube videos on productivity and all these things and how to optimize your time, because we don't. We don't want to be bored and we feel like being bored is wrong, like this podcast is wrong.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Yeah, this podcast was. One of the major tenants of it is, uh, to improve someone's productivity.

Speaker 3: 39:30

Yeah, and that's that's most yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:32

I'm, I'm. I love productivity.

Speaker 3: 39:34

I get all excited about it Me too.

Speaker 1: 39:36

Uh, but there is a, there is that other edge to that sword.

Speaker 3: 39:39

Yeah, uh, he says that, like when our brains have basically two modes um, unfocused and focused. And focused, uh, when it's in focus mode, it's paying attention, so that's when we're processing information, completing a task. But that's also when we're checking your phones, watching TV, uh, listening to a podcast, and then the unfocused mode is when we're not paying attention, that's called inward mind wandering, so it's a rest state that restores and rebuilds the resources needed to work better and more efficiently in the focused mode. So basically he kind of compares being on your phone and being in this unfocused um mo well, being in the focus mode as lifting weights, and then, once you go to this unfocused mode, when you're completely bored, that's when you're resting. So if we kill our boredom by watching TV, going on our phones, that's kind of like trying to do rep after rep after rep of an exercise.

Speaker 3: 40:25

And he says that that's why modern life actually overworks the hell out of our brains, which is very, very interesting, because when do you ever sit around and do absolutely nothing? Most of us don't do that. Like our breaks. What we considered taking a break from something, from work or anything, is picking up our phones and scrolling through social media. Right, and that's not a break. Exactly.

Speaker 1: 40:45

And, and, and, and we, and. That's when we've, that's when we create our first contact with the first layer of the layer cake right, which is the negativity layer, this cake everybody, yeah. Cause we're not doing anything long enough to get down to that, the the layer below that, and so that's why a lot of us will try to avoid it, because I don't want to think about that kind of shit right now. Yeah, podcast Joe Rogan. Yeah, the. Red Lee Fitness podcast. We hope, we hope.

Speaker 3: 41:11

But basically pick up your phone and scroll yeah, which it's insane. Like it's so funny because now I'm actively trying to not use Instagram as much and I've actually cut my usage by and saying them out. And it's funny because at the beginning you're like, okay, what do I do now? Like you're just sitting in there and your default is to pick up your phone and go on it. So then, when you don't like, you want to pick it up and you're like, oh, I guess, well, there's nothing to do, because this is what I usually do when I'm bored. And it's like, no, I'm just going to sit here and not do that. I ended up researching random stuff, but I'm actively trying not to use it, which it's insane, because I feel like I had all this anxiety because of it and I didn't know that I had it, and I still don't know exactly what was causing it, but I do know that it was coming from endlessly scrolling and being on social media all the time. This is also it's a. It's a.

Speaker 1: 42:04

It's a it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a. It sort of reminds me of just another reason why rucking is so effective, because, uh, while you're out for an hour rock or 90 minute rock, you're not scrolling you're not you're not. And if, maybe, if you're with somebody and you're enjoying their company and you guys are creating a bond, or you're talking or laughing or all of it, uh, you know, have you ever heard the rhyme? Uh, the solution to pollution is dilution.

Speaker 3: 42:32

I think I've heard of that before. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:34

Right, like if yeah, I've heard it for years and one of my clients said it to me a few months ago and I reminded me how much I love it and you know and so like if, um, if the pollution is, uh, is this this constant distraction? Um, the solution is diluting it with time spent doing other things, so you're distracting yourself by doing something really, really healthy, like being on a 60 minute rock, or my favorite thing, which, uh, is being on a three hour bike ride, or a 90 minute swim, which is the bliss.

Speaker 3: 43:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:09

Bliss.

Speaker 3: 43:10

I need to get into swimming.

Speaker 1: 43:11

Yeah, Um sorry, tangent number 32.

Speaker 3: 43:17

Are we just?

Speaker 1: 43:17

going to turn my mic down.

Speaker 3: 43:19

I would never do that, um, but no, you're completely right. It's just that, like, the way that we deal with boredom today is basically junk food for our brains because, like as we've spoken about in a different podcast, um, these apps are literally designed to be addictive and we fall into that all the time. And he says that a rule is if you're not paying for a digital service, you are what the company's selling, so of course they're going to do an incredible job at that. Um, then he kind of switches into um, how time spent outdoors have declined over the past few years and kids actually play outside 50% less, uh, than their parents did a few decades earlier, and camping in the woods is down by 30%, and camping is basically one of the best things ever.

Speaker 1: 44:04

The best. Are you a camper?

Speaker 3: 44:05

Oh, I love camping, put me in the middle of the woods. So it's funny, because camping in Canada I find it very funny because you have to like go to like an actual camping site. Like there's all these things in Brazil. You go in the middle of the woods like, oh, I found a forest, I'm just going to camp in the middle of it. No bathrooms, no, nothing. Like I've camped so much in Brazil and that's how we camp. So then, once I moved here, I'm like, oh, I actually have to go to this site and book a camping spot. And like I'm like this is not camp, okay.

Speaker 1: 44:34

It's camping, but that's so different.

Speaker 3: 44:36

It's very different. Yeah, I'm like okay, there's a bathroom.

Speaker 1: 44:39

You're going to. You're going to book 22.

Speaker 3: 44:42

I usually swim in the lake when we camp.

Speaker 1: 44:45

So wait, wait. Can you tell me about camping in Brazil?

Speaker 3: 44:47

Yeah, it's literally. It's just wherever there is a forest and you want to camp in the middle of it, you just can't. They're like I've camped on the top of a mountain. That was pretty wild because it was very high up and it was very, very windy. Oh man, I really thought the tent was just going to fly away because of how windy it was. It was just in the peak of a mountain. Wow yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:08

And that makes a lot of sense because I follow this incredible account of this woman who travels the world. She's Canadian and she has the most beautiful cinematic romantic clips of her camping trips and a lot of it. And she's done stuff in Brazil and a lot of it is just exactly that.

Speaker 3: 45:29

Yeah, we don't. We don't do campsites, it's more. You just find a spot and you camp so embarrassed. It's, it's, it's very different. That's a cultural thing, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:41

And are. Yeah, that's so neat, and so is there big camping culture like there is.

Speaker 3: 45:46

There is a big fishing like I fished a lot Whoa, yeah it's. I guess outdoor stuff is kind of big there and we have a lot of like my state, Ellie's. We have a lot of waterfalls, so we try to camp near waterfalls, which is really nice. I don't know if you ever swam in like waterfalls. It's so nice. The water is freezing, but it's like the best thing. It's really really nice.

Speaker 1: 46:07

I, yeah, I have. I have swam in like a waterfall pond and then you get under the waterfall and it is free. It takes your breath away.

Speaker 3: 46:15

It takes your breath away.

Speaker 1: 46:18

When Val and I were in Alberta last, I was able to get under a waterfall. I think that's where it was. But yeah, I just remember it takes your breath away Like it's a shock. Yeah, you do like a big like you can almost have a heart attack.

Speaker 3: 46:32

It's so cold.

Speaker 1: 46:34

Yeah, it's shocking.

Speaker 3: 46:36

But it's so nice. You feel like a new person when you get out of it.

Speaker 1: 46:40

So because I've been a blowhorn and and and soaking up all our time, I want to make sure that I respect your time. We've got about 12 minutes left. Yeah, what are the things that we can talk about that you felt people should know? That really spoke to you about the remaining Cause. I think we're almost at about halfway through the book.

Speaker 3: 47:01

Yeah, um, I think if we were to go to very, very important pieces, uh, the one about thinking about death every day, that part, of the book. I thought was incredible, and specifically the way that he starts the that chapter. I'm like I don't care if we're on this podcast for four hours. This part needs to be read out loud because it's just so good. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:23

So he talks about this concept called the cosmic calendar. So in this cosmic calendar it's basically a year long scale where, if you would, you would put the universe's entire timeline in this year long scale. So universe, the universe has been alive I guess you could say um, for 13.8 billion years. So in this cosmic calendar, the big bang occurred on January 1st at 12 AM. The Milky Way galaxy formed on March 16th, our solar system took shape on September 2nd and earth followed on September 16th, about 4.4 billion years ago. The first complex cell on earth emerged on November. Nine dinosaurs appeared on Christmas and went extinct on December 30th. And then on this calendar, all of recorded human history so 12,000 years, 480 generations shows up on the night of December 31st at 1159 and 33 seconds. Like if that doesn't show how insignificant and small we are in the grand scheme of things. Like I don't know what does. Like I read that over and over and I was like I had to pause Cause. I was like we were just so, so tiny in this, like whole thing.

Speaker 1: 48:38

I remember driving listening to that and I just kept like rewinding it, rewinding it. Yeah, I'm like, oh my God.

Speaker 3: 48:45

And then it like and then it got even better cause he's like um, so we don't even appreciate how lucky we are to be alive. The odds of us being alive are so immensely small. So the odds of a person being alive are one in 10 to the power of 2,685,000. So the odds are the same as having a group of 2 million people roll a trillion sided die and every roll landing on the same number, like if that doesn't make you appreciate the fact that you're alive, because the odds of that happening are miniscule, like miniscule, like that's insane, like just read that every morning. I think life would be better.

Speaker 1: 49:25

If that isn't the perfect example of you, get to be here, so make the most of it. Yeah. I don't know what is. Does it remind you of um Peter Sagan's pale blue dot at all? Do you know that?

Speaker 3: 49:36

I don't.

Speaker 1: 49:37

Oh, that's. That's a for today. Check out pale blue dot. Okay, I will. It's, yeah, it's in this vein and it's so, it's the best.

Speaker 3: 49:45

Okay, I feel like I've heard of it. For sure, yeah, I think I had a friend who mentioned it not too long ago. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 49:51

But, um, yeah, so he just basically spends this chapter talking about the importance of reminding ourselves that we are all going to die and how Western society is very uncomfortable with death and that today, when somebody passes away, we're told to stay busy, to take our mind off of it. We're basically taught to ignore death. We're not taught to remind ourselves that death is coming. And he talks about um, how the people of Bhutan are considered some of the happiest people on earth and they actually spend a lot of their days thinking about death. Uh, they, they try to think about death at least one to three times a day. And he goes, he travels to Bhutan to talk to a um, one of the Buddhist thinkers, and I love what he says to.

Speaker 3: 50:29

He says you Americans are usually ignorant, Most Americans are unaware of how good they have it and so many of you are miserable and chasing the wrong things. And Michael asks what are the wrong things? And he says you act like life is a fulfilling checklist. I need to get a good wife or husband and get a good car, then get a good house, then get a promotion, and then I get a better car and a better house and I make a name for myself, but this plan will never materialize perfectly. It's the nature of desire to get one thing and immediately want the next thing, and this cycle of accomplishments and acquisitions won't necessarily make you happy. If you have 10 pairs of shoes, you want 11.

Speaker 1: 51:02

And that is that describes our society so well, Like you know I relate to that one uh with cycling, so I can't tell you how many times I really needed a cycling kit.

Speaker 3: 51:12

I was going to say uh, you just saw on Rafa's website like I need a new jersey now.

Speaker 1: 51:17

Yeah, and when it comes in the mail and I'm like super excited about it, it's it's probably 10% as fulfilling.

Speaker 3: 51:25

Probably last five minutes.

Speaker 1: 51:26

Yeah, you know, when I was looking down the website I was like I've excuse me. I need this.

Speaker 3: 51:35

Add to cart now.

Speaker 1: 51:38

Free shipping process.

Speaker 3: 51:41

Coupon cart. Add to the cart. That's how bad it is.

Speaker 3: 51:47

Um, and then yeah he just talks about how one way to solve this issue of not thinking about death is mindfulness, and this is what he says. He says pretend you were walking along a trail and there is a cliff and 500 yards, 500 yards, and the catch is that the cliff is death. We will all walk off of it and we are, in fact, walking towards this, walking towards it this very moment. Do you want to know that there's a cliff? When you want to understand that death is coming and that the cliff is coming, you see things differently. You change your mental course. You naturally become more compassionate and mindful. But Americans, they don't want to hear about the cliff, they don't think about death After a funeral. They want to get their mind off death and just eat cake. The boot knees. They want to know about the cliff and they will be happy to talk about death and ruin the cake eating. And he bring and he talks about this word.

Speaker 3: 52:32

I'm probably going to ruin it, but but, it's a couple of minutes, which means impermanence, so it's the idea that everything is impermanent. Impermanent, nothing lasts and there's there's nothing that can be held on to. That basically, just everything passes, like nothing, nothing stays, which I thought is very interesting. And it ties into the fact that I just got a tattoo that says to topasa, which literally means everything passes, in Italian, and I'm like it's like I feel like I was influenced by the book and I didn't even notice and it's like right here.

Speaker 3: 53:03

So when I'm driving, like it's so funny because now so many times that I'm driving and I'm like overthinking, and I look down and I catch myself reading it and I'm like everything passes, it's probably the best tattoo I've ever gotten because I'm like it actually has an impact. I'm like the same thing. I'm like nothing is permanent and I'm like things are fine, things are going to be fine, I'm okay, which is very interesting and ties into the book. And he basically recommends that we think about that three times a day, once in the morning, once in the afternoon and once in the evening, that we must be curious about our death, that we must understand that we don't know when we're going to die, how we're going to die where we're going to die. But if we can be sure about one thing is that we are going to die, and that is just so awesome.

Speaker 1: 53:48

That concept on, you know, on meditating on one's own death, has been around for so long. It's one of the main pillars of stoicism that you know Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus and all those like really great Greek and Roman philosophers always talked about, and so it's been in every single culture except North American.

Speaker 3: 54:15

Yeah, we're told to ignore death. Right, the death is a bad thing, of course, but we should be reminded of it, to be more thankful and grateful about everything right.

Speaker 1: 54:26

I love your tattoo and I think that that's so cool. I think that's so, Ari, by the way.

Speaker 3: 54:30

Right, yeah, that's the best. It was actually very spontaneous. There was no plan of getting it.

Speaker 1: 54:35

I feel like I remember. It was like for the moment, was that a birthday?

Speaker 3: 54:38

It was me and my friend were sitting, my friend Sarah. We were sitting down having breakfast and I was not having breakfast. We were eating pizza and literally I just I was like biting it. And she looks at me. She's like, do you want to go get a tattoo right now? And I was like, oh my God, let's go. She's like of course you would say yes, why did I even ask?

Speaker 1: 54:53

Yeah, that's the arous.

Speaker 3: 54:55

And she's like do you know what you're getting? And I like stopped for a second. I'm like yeah, I do know what I'm getting. That's what we went and got it and, yeah, it's like it means something to me, like I feel like it has had an impact on my thinking and all.

Speaker 1: 55:10

Yeah, that's, and and uh, originally when we were chatting at. One of the things that I love so much about doing these, um, these book reviews with you is that, uh, I look at what I glean out of a book through my lens, and so what I think is really interesting is I get to sort of be in Ari's mind for a minute and be like what does she think's cool?

Speaker 1: 55:30

What's like and so that was one of the ones I was like, wow, she's really digesting this part, where for me I kind of was like okay, cool, yeah, I'm into that, I you know but that. But that really meant something. It was symbolic to you. So yeah, it was, it was, it's neat.

Speaker 3: 55:46

And just if we can wrap up in the uh, just the last part of the book about carrying the load. I think this is a big part for you.

Speaker 3: 55:52

I would say, right Like as I was reading about rocking and how we were, although a lot of people think that we were born to run and of course we were, we ran, we ran a lot to survive but he, he argues that we were actually born to carry, that were the only species that can walk on two feet while carrying things at the same time. And that's where he ties it into to wrecking, and wrecking, if you don't know, is basically just carrying a weighted backpack.

Speaker 1: 56:17

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:17

Back while walking. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:20

This, and this is what I like. If what we're saying in the beginning, like if you're somebody who's just heard about rocking or you're, you're getting excited about it, uh it's, it's really one of the most healthy things you can do and it's so freaking easy and accessible and it's so effective. So effective. And uh, all you have to do is throw some weight in a backpack and go and enjoy it.

Speaker 3: 56:44

Yeah, Like I put it on and I go walk my dog and it's like it just adds that little bit of difficulty to my walk.

Speaker 1: 56:50

Yep, you're doing it anyways.

Speaker 3: 56:51

Yeah, exactly, and it's just like the chances of you getting injured are way less than running. So if you're a little afraid of running, I feel like you're not a good runner. You're still walking, which is something we all, we all do. So just throw it on your back and you go.

Speaker 1: 57:05

Yeah. As someone who does long distance running now, I'm so connected to the importance of dosing running. It is super dangerous. Yeah. It is.

Speaker 3: 57:15

I actually I had no idea until I started reading more about it and I was like, wow, running injuries are very, very common.

Speaker 1: 57:20

Yeah, and, and luckily I have, you know, coach experience and a good proprioception and connection to my own body and ability that I I haven't had any um running injuries not one, well, but it uh, I know cause. I know what an injury feels like before you're injured. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:40

And so I dose it really correctly. But once, if you're a runner and you're just like so stressed out about work, you throw in your shoes yard on a fucking run and you're just going. Well, the the. The program said 12 K today and I'm just going to go hit that I guess I'm going to do it. Yeah, that's not how I approach my stuff, but when you rock you were, you were exposed to none of that risk. Yeah. You're going to go out for 60 minutes and probably cover three K, maybe five K.

Speaker 3: 58:03

Yeah, he says it's a great mixture of, basically, cardio and strength training, which it just very true. Yeah. Yeah, so go rocking, everybody Get out there. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:16

Just scrolling through all these incredible notes. What about? What about rocking and back pain? Isn't that? Isn't that hurt your back Are?

Speaker 3: 58:26

you Doesn't carrying stuff on your back. What doesn't that hurt you?

Speaker 1: 58:28

My back hurts just hearing about it.

Speaker 3: 58:30

It's actually so funny because I didn't know that it's. The most common pain that we complain about is actually back pain, but what's interesting is that about 85% of it is actually non specific and doctors believe it is because of our tendency to sit around every day and we weren't born to sit. So Rucking actually helps with this, because the weight pulls people out of that slump position that's so common with us sitting and working at our desks every day, and engages our core muscles, glute muscles, which become particularly weakened through so much sitting, and it also forces a person to stand tall and lock down the muscles that protect their spine. So if you think it's a bad thing, it's not a bad thing. Really, really good for you. We were born to carry. Our ancestors did this all the time, so my keys just I also love the the part in.

Speaker 1: 59:18

So, just before we wrap things up, I also love the part about how he he talks about how humans evolved and where we fit in the like um, who's what animal is designed to endure? Yeah, and he talks about how humans are actually designed to run the longest, carry the most, and there's all these unique things Like. One new thing that I learned about on this reading this book this time, was that our, our noses are actually designed to humidify the air before they for the air. Air reaches our lungs, yeah, and enrich, and so animals don't have that and you'll know that, because think about your dog. When your dog overheats, it pants. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:09

They don't. They have other features of their noses that we don't, of course, like smell, and, and I think, I think, um, they're starting to think that animals can smell feelings. Oh yeah, you know, obviously we don't have that. Oh, you smell like you're real angry right now, yeah. I'm smelling some anger Over here.

Speaker 3: 1:00:27

I'm going to back away.

Speaker 1: 1:00:29

So when animals are supposedly able to do that, which is crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:00:32

Yeah, that is insane.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

Yeah, um yeah. So I thought that was really neat. And also we have all this like unique, um, you know, we, you know we think about sweating and stuff, and it's actually not a flaw, it's a feature. So, yeah, that allows us to do it.

Speaker 3: 1:00:47

We're built so perfectly and we don't even know it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

Yeah, so to the book obviously is is uh, no question about just getting excited about going out there and getting uncomfortable because of the, um, copious, uh, benefits that you get from it. Uh, what would you um?

Speaker 3: 1:01:05

Great.

Speaker 1: 1:01:06

What would you rate this book? A 10. Oh, this is my 10.

Speaker 3: 1:01:10

This is definitely my 10. I have no doubts about it. It's funny I read probably more than half of the book in an emergency room at the hospital. So it wasn't me. My dad has diabetes and he had like a little like diabetic thing and we had to go to the emergency. He's fine. We had to go to the emergency and so we were there for six hours and I knew I was going to be there a long time because I'm like see, we're just gonna be a lot of waiting. So I'm going to bring this book.

Speaker 3: 1:01:34

So I read more than half of it there and I feel like it had a special impact because of that, because I saw so many people like people were either sitting around sick or they were with somebody and they were just looking down at their phones, you know, trying not to be bored, and I'm and I'm reading all these things and I'm like like I am completely healthy, like I can do all the things that are in the book and yet like I catch myself doing all the things that are like scrolling through social media and all these things, and I'm like man, like why, like I'm so lucky to be in the position that I am and I'm like I can be better, I can do better. So I feel like it had a special impact because of that and I'm like this is my 10. This is 100% my 10. Like, and I think I even told you that before. I'm like this is my 10.

Speaker 1: 1:02:16

I didn't know that.

Speaker 3: 1:02:17

Yeah, I think it made it even better.

Speaker 1: 1:02:20

I do recall how fast you read the book. Yeah, very fast. You annihilated it in two days, I remember.

Speaker 3: 1:02:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:26

Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:02:28

And I barely even touched my phone while I was there. I was like I'm just going to read. I'm just going to read that and I can't read them like so good, so good. Got to talk to Sean.

Speaker 1: 1:02:36

I can't believe. Yeah, I'm just sort of putting myself in your position there, like wow, being in the place where, quite literally, people are there because of sickness and worse, and you're reading about the like alien antidote.

Speaker 3: 1:02:51

Yeah, exactly, wow, it's just tied in.

Speaker 1: 1:02:54

That's. That's really neat. Yeah, I think I'm going to go read a book in a hospital, do it?

Speaker 3: 1:02:58

It's going to get going. You got a whole different perspective.

Speaker 1: 1:03:01

Sir, what are you doing here? Just leave me alone.

Speaker 3: 1:03:03

I'm just reading no emergencies, nope yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:03:05

No, I'm totally fine, I come here to read, are you?

Speaker 3: 1:03:08

sure no, because you're here.

Speaker 1: 1:03:11

But I'm glad your father's okay.

Speaker 3: 1:03:12

Yeah, no he's okay, he's okay.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

It wasn't anything big, but I use the opportunity to like.

Speaker 3: 1:03:17

I know I'm going to be here for a long time and it was like six hours, I think. So I was like I'm just going to read.

Speaker 1: 1:03:22

That's yeah, yeah. That's super interesting and I'm it's. I'm so glad you were able to crush it and and connect with the book, so for me it's also a 10. Yes. This book is church for me, Like there's just very few books that I can really say that about that.

Speaker 3: 1:03:38

Yeah, I just um definitely going to read it again and again and again. I can see that, yeah, I recommend it to people.

Speaker 1: 1:03:45

I'll throw it on on long car rides and stuff. Sometimes like when I'm in a, in a long drive or something and I I'm sitting and I've eaten you know a Starbucks breakfast burrito and I'm not feeling all that healthy. Sometimes like, um, just like digesting something healthy into my brain makes me feel better. It's like okay when I get out of here I'm going to go and I'm going to need some veggies. I want a big salad and I want to like, so this book fits in there.

Speaker 3: 1:04:12

It's a tool, yeah, and he's releasing a new one soon, so maybe we'll, is he?

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

what yeah Like?

Speaker 3: 1:04:17

I can't remember. If you want to Google Michael, he's really come up, but I think it's coming out in September and I'm like I love his style of writing, so 100% will be reading it and checking it out. I think it's something about doing hard things. It's on his um, it's on his, it's on it. Yeah, yogo, everybody actually love yoga. Did you do that? I did oh did it not play for everybody else? Why I don't?

Speaker 1: 1:04:48

know if it. I don't know if it played through.

Speaker 3: 1:04:52

If you go to Michael's website and you go under his books, um, it's on there, it's up for pre-order. Like, can everybody hear the yoga commercial? Come on, it's up there somewhere in books. He's such an incredible author. Yeah, that's the one Scarcity brain, cool. Yeah, I'm like I know I'm going to like it because this man is amazing. Um, so we'll definitely be okay, we'll have to review that one. Doing an episode on that one for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:05:24

Yeah, uh, okay, great, well, well, let's, let's wrap it all up there. Thanks so much, ari. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:05:29

This was always the best, the best. Cannot wait for the next one.

Speaker 1: 1:05:34

And if you like this episode, please do let us know. You can reach out to both of us, um, or you can reach out to Ari personally on her uh Instagram. Where can people go? Where can people reach you?

Speaker 3: 1:05:43

Uh, it's Ari underscore V Mac. And I don't currently have an Instagram handle that you can reach me at, but you can find him on Strava because me and him now I feel like that that has become our new, like social media, hey that's me and you were like we just posted now and then we'll post like images with it and like a good, you write the best captions.

Speaker 1: 1:06:00

Thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:06:01

And I'm like so nice. Thank you yeah. That's I think that's our new thing.

Speaker 1: 1:06:06

Strava is my social, it is my Instagram. Yeah. It feels, it feels really light. There's yeah, it was just there's no um, yeah there's nothing that that drives me crazy about that.

Speaker 3: 1:06:20

So if you want to reach on, you can reach me and I'll be shot for you.

Speaker 1: 1:06:25

Uh, through, yeah, find me via Ari going for it or the red leaf. Uh, instagram, um, I'm definitely checking that on daily basis as well, but, uh, we love doing these podcasts, so if you have any um feedback that you'd like us to know, please do us know. And if you'd like us to review a book that's always fun too we can add it to our giant stack of books.

Speaker 3: 1:06:47

Yeah, huge stack around the house.

Speaker 1: 1:06:50

Um, okay, always a pleasure. Thanks so much, ari.

Speaker 3: 1:06:52

Thank you so much.