Reading with Ari: Ego Is The Enemy, by Ryan Holiday

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to another edition of the Redleaf Fitness Podcast, a show dedicated to bringing you stories, interviews and conversations about living a healthy, resilient and productive life. I'm your host, sean Blinch, and I want to thank you for making time to listen to this episode today and, if you like what we're putting down, we would love it if you would follow, rate and share this podcast. All right, now let's get down to business. Welcome back to the Redleaf Fitness Podcast on March 27. I'm sitting here with the lovely Ari. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:39

I'm good, how are?

Speaker 1: 0:40

you, I'm doing great. We were just talking off mic about all of our adventures with triathlon.

Speaker 2: 0:47

The best.

Speaker 1: 0:48

The best and I'm just, I'm so excited for you. You really, you know, found something and you've really jumped headfirst into it.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Oh, I'm so excited. It's like we were saying I feel like it's the perfect balance of training at this point, doing a little bit of everything. You're swimming, yeah, running I don't know if I'd call it swimming. I'm kidding, it's gotten so much better. But biking my butt feels sore from the last ride. Riding indoors is a whole beast of its own.

Speaker 1: 1:22

There was. What did I read recently? There's something called TFS, which is trainer fatigue syndrome, where we're just over it. Now it's enough, let's get out on these bikes.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Please, I cannot wait to be riding outside.

Speaker 1: 1:38

So if you've tuned into this podcast, you have found the latest and greatest version of our book review podcast. Reading with Ari. And what book did we choose?

Speaker 2: 1:54

Ego is the Enemy. By Ryan Holiday.

Speaker 1: 1:58

Did you hate it?

Speaker 2: 2:00

Oh, I loved it. It was so good, I got through it so quick.

Speaker 1: 2:03

Interesting. Did you love it so much that you would write six pages?

Speaker 2: 2:08

I would have written more, but we decided to, you know, keep this a little bit more on the personal and to the point.

Speaker 1: 2:18

So let's dive into it. So where should we start?

Speaker 2: 2:21

So just to give an idea to everybody who hasn't read the book. So the book is basically an examination of the destructive nature of the ego and how it impedes personal growth, and the way that ryan holiday defines ego is it's an unhealthy belief in our own importance. It can be thought of as arrogance or self-centered ambition, and there's an ego in each one of us. It's funny. I was telling my sister that I was going to talk about this book. She's like I don't have an ego. I'm like you sure do, and so do I, and so does every single person. Yeah, and he says that ego truly is the enemy. It's the enemy of what you want, it's the enemy of what you have. It's the enemy of a purposeful life, of self-growth, of being a better human.

Speaker 2: 3:07

And it feels like the culture that we have nowadays has made our egos just take over even more. He says this quote now more than ever, our culture fans the flames of ego. It's never been easier to talk, to puff ourselves up. We can brag about our goals to millions of our fans and followers, things only rock stars and cult leaders used to have. We can follow and interact with our idols on Twitter. We can read books and sites and watch TED Talks, drink from a fire hose of inspiration and validation like never before. We can name ourselves CEO of our exists only on paper company. We can announce big news on social media and let the congratulations roll in, and I feel like we can all connect to that.

Speaker 1: 3:49

Every time I've read this book, I'm always amazed by that paragraph.

Speaker 2: 3:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:59

You know those moments when you're reading a book where you're like, oh my God, everybody needs to read this book right now. That's how I felt. I was like I need to read this book right now.

Speaker 2: 4:04

That's how I felt I was like I need to send this book to everybody, to order on Amazon like 20 and start mailing them out to people.

Speaker 1: 4:10

A hundred percent yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Because it was that good.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:15

So for this book, we decided to go at it a little bit different than before. We've been summarizing books before. For this one, we decided that we'd pick five points that we felt some sort of attachment to, like it really hit us, and then we would discuss those. So I picked five I don't know if you did, sean, but we can discuss my five and I'm sure we probably share very similar fives and for each one I kind of picked a quote to summarize that point. Well, and for each one I kind of picked a quote to summarize that point well. So on to point one, the quote.

Speaker 2: 4:49

It is a temptation that exists for everyone for talk and hype to replace action. Almost universally. The kind of performance we give on social media is positive. It's more. Let me tell you how well things are going. Look how great I am. It's rarely the truth. I'm scared, I'm struggling, I don't know, and I feel like I definitely can relate to that. I did take a little break from Instagram and all of that, so that was great, but then I decided to get back on it and this whole thing about posting about it and hyping yourself up and letting that replace action I I think it's easy to fall into that trap, especially at the beginning of a journey or beginning of a goal, because we get so excited and so nervous and we seek comfort by talking about those grandiose goals.

Speaker 2: 5:35

But, like Ryan says, talking, talking is easy. Anyone can talk. What's scarce is silence, and we seem to see silence as a sign of weakness that being ignored is equivalent to death. So we talk to see silence as a sign of weakness that being ignored is equivalent to death. So we talk, we talk and we talk. However, the strength comes from the ability to deliberately keep yourself out of the conversation and continue without its validation. And, like when I read this chapter, I felt so many mixed things. Because I agree, like you shouldn't just talk, you should do the work, but personally, like I do feel that talking about it and sharing it gives me a form of accountability and a form of motivation.

Speaker 1: 6:16

so I put it out there.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Yeah. So like even when I made my whole little like race path for the year, I hadn't signed up for half of those things. And I still haven't signed up for some of those things. But I feel accountability like big time, Like there is no way that I cannot do this.

Speaker 1: 6:33

Now you've got to back it up.

Speaker 2: 6:35

Exactly. Now I got to back it up. So even though, like, I agree with him that a lot of people just talk, talk, talk, talk and don't do, talk, talk, talk, talk and don't do, I do still see a value in talking about it. So I have mixed feelings about that and maybe it is an ego thing, like, because when you post about it you do get people being like, oh, that's so awesome, that's like congratulations that you're doing that thing. So of course it does hate your ego and there is like they say that even you talking about it, there's a part of our brains that feels like we already accomplished it.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Yeah, so there's, there's that negative to it too. But, like everybody knows, like the probably wonderful person who's always starting something yeah, I'm at the start of this thing and you know, and you, that person never really meets the middle of something. And if they do, that's kind of where it ends. Something catastrophic happens in their life. And then they never reach the end. It's always this is my new thing I'm doing and it's huge, and I think that that's kind of the social media trap that I think he may be referring to more.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Because deep in Ari's character is someone who fulfills things. She's a completionist. She's also totally a perfectionist. From my standpoint, right, the most prepared person in the room she you guys are going to do something.

Speaker 2: 7:59

She's going to read 72 reddits, 100 youtube videos and know more about it than you did you're not even wrong okay, that's who I is I call it an obsessive personality, where it's like I was telling my friend the other day it's like either I'm all in and like all in 100, I'm gonna read, I'm gonna research, I'm gonna buy whatever I need to buy or I'm not at all, like you can tell that I'm completely not excited about it and like I can't get myself to do it.

Speaker 1: 8:30

There's no halfway point you know, you just don't have enough hours in your day because of how, all in, you get on something I do and then like, of course there's negatives to it.

Speaker 2: 8:41

Like to a point where I don't even like when things interfere with it. I'm like no, like I'm not gonna stay up till 12 doing this because I need my sleep, like I gotta be up, like my mom and my sister were up the other day I was there on the weekend and my sister comes in from work she's like where's ariana?

Speaker 2: 8:58

I was like and I can hear them my mom's like she's in bed, she's like it's 10 o'clock and I was like I need my sleep because I committed to doing these things. And I'm like and it's important to me, or also I'm like I wake up and I'm like why did I stay up till whatever time you know?

Speaker 1: 9:14

Yeah, that's such a character thing.

Speaker 2: 9:16

Yeah, it's a problem. So, like he does say the whole thing about you shouldn't just talk, talk, talk you. So, like he does say the whole thing about you shouldn't just talk, talk, talk you should do. But then there's also this whole thing about manifestation and visualization, and there's a lot of science to back it up too. It's been shown in several studies that visualizing actually helps with performance, and I've, of course, heard interviews with Michael Phelps where he says that he would visualize like up from the moment, where, like he would leave his house, like every single detail of the race. He would have it visualized before he got into the water and actually did the race. And, like I, I'm pretty sure he attributes part of his success to doing that, and I've heard that a bunch of other athletes do it, he would count every stroke, hundreds and hundreds of strokes.

Speaker 2: 10:09

Like that's insane.

Speaker 1: 10:11

It's it's. I don't even think the average person could even do that. No, I don't think so. Could you log every stroke in your mind? He can.

Speaker 2: 10:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Okay, I took 900 strokes today, boom, that was. I took 900 strokes today, boom, I was supposed to be at 932. That was fucked. Next time I'm getting it right.

Speaker 2: 10:27

That's insane, yeah, even keeping count of like laps in the pool, like did I just go there back and forth or did I just go there?

Speaker 1: 10:35

It's beyond me.

Speaker 2: 10:39

I have no idea how many. I've done in the pool ever If it wasn't for the watch. Yeah. Oh my God, it for the watch, yeah oh my god, it would be a shit show. I can't even do 25 and be like, was that?

Speaker 1: 10:48

25. Yeah, am I on 75, or is that my first one?

Speaker 2: 10:53

I can definitely relate. Um, there's actually actually a famous study too where scientists did an experiment which one group of people practiced a finger exercise on the piano while another group of people imagined themselves practicing the finger exercise. The group who imagined themselves practicing weren't allowed to touch the piano or move their fingers, they could only think about it and after five days brain scans of both groups shared showed new fine motor abilities had developed at almost the exact same rate on both people. So even the people that didn't actually physically practice, they just imagine themselves, they develop those motor abilities. So like I do think there is a very big thing to visualization and and like a vision boards and manifestation and all of that, I think it is like a really, really big thing.

Speaker 1: 11:40

So yeah, I'll just I'll build on that one with you because I have a real deep personal connection with visualizing. I, admittedly, am all vision and I'm a dreamer and I live in the clouds and I know that has some limitations, and so I really rely on Michelle and Karen to sort of Ground you. Yeah either. No, we're not going to do that one Sean.

Speaker 2: 12:10

No, no, Sean, you're prohibited.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Or it's like okay, so here's how we're going to. You know, take that idea and this is. These are the things that need to happen from there. But the reason why I deeply connect to it is because, um, I attribute being able to complete, uh, one of the hardest things in my life to uh. I can't tell you how many times I visualized crossing the finish line for my Ironman. So it was so real to me that I would cry Like I would like not the ball, but I would have like really emotional. Um, I would like not ball, but I would have like really emotional, um, non-voluntary experiences with finishing a run or a bike or something, because I was in Tromblon uh, in my mind I don't know 50 times before I did it.

Speaker 2: 12:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:59

And when I actually did it, it was. It was way more overwhelming than I ever could have imagined and I felt at home because I was like I've been here 50 fucking times.

Speaker 2: 13:08

I've done this, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:10

So the visualization thing is it's real.

Speaker 2: 13:13

Yeah. So he does say that there's cons to that, because sometimes we start to visualize and talk about stuff so much that it feels like we've made progress, like who has never said, oh, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm so excited. And the next day comes and you're like, yeah, I think I'm going to sleep. So I think of course, there are some like downsides, but I do think there are humongous down like upsides. So I do think there should be a little talk.

Speaker 1: 13:42

So yeah, Like you can't, you can't do everything Right, but I mean some someone like someone like you is you commit?

Speaker 2: 13:51

yeah, like to the things that I feel like I want to commit and I'm excited about, like like the triathlon and like next year definitely like a 70.3, like all of that, for sure when you, when we were talking about biking I remember I think we were in a podcast, we were, and there was something different, something hooked you and you, you were like whoa.

Speaker 1: 14:16

And the next thing I knew was weeks of like hey, so I read 450 Reddits, this is the bike I want.

Speaker 2: 14:25

Thoughts. I don't care what you say, I'm getting this bike.

Speaker 1: 14:28

I was like I don't know. Ari, I think at this point you know more about bikes than I do. Like should I get this one too.

Speaker 2: 14:34

That's so funny, and now I keep doing that with like every other piece of equipment I might need.

Speaker 2: 14:40

It's been electrolytes lately, oh man, Okay. Well, moving on to point number two. So passion, it's all about passion. Find your passion, Live passionately. Inspire the world with your passion.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Well, Ryan says, don't be passionate. He thinks we've got passion all wrong. Sure, it's cool to be passionate about stuff, but it can also lead us down the wrong path. Sometimes we get so caught up on our passion that we ignore the reality of the situation. Instead of just being passionate, we should take a more practical approach, Focus on putting in the work, staying disciplined and sticking our goals. He says that to forget about being that we should forget about being driven solely by passion. Instead, we should focus on the two other P's purpose and process. Purpose gives us direction and meaning, guiding us towards the goals that really matter to us. And process it's all about putting in the effort, staying disciplined and getting better at what we do. So, instead of getting swept away by passion, we need to stay grounded in purpose and process, and I agree Like. I think it's super easy to fall into the into being so passionate Like yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:46

I feel like I'm definitely super guilty, which we just talked about me getting so obsessed about stuff, but I again I do think there's positives to that. Like I think you should be excited and you should be like all in, but of course, if you're not going to put in the work and be okay with doing the things that suck, then passion is not going to get you anywhere, right.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Exactly. You know, I feel like when we talk about passion, this is this, like it's this, there's a late stage development and a maturation to the whole concept of like, be passionate about it, cause I think it started as well, meaning, I think, when having a career started to depart away from um, okay, so you're going to, uh, either like become a, a welder or like it, or some sort of thing that society needed. Do you know what I'm talking about? Where now it was like now, follow your passion. So that actually had a decade of taking itself and seeing if that actually worked. And so now we're at this stage where it's like, actually, fucking passion doesn't work for shit, it's dumb, you need to live in reality, which is the two p's, right?

Speaker 1: 17:04

Yeah, and when I was thinking of, when I was reading through your notes last night, I was thinking like you know what comes up for me? It's like, yeah, you know, let's say god forbid that you needed to go and have surgery, right? Do you want your doctor to be trained or passionate? Does Dr Jones know so?

Speaker 2: 17:20

passionate about surgery and this and that knows nothing.

Speaker 1: 17:23

Right Now. All right, we're doing open heart surgery here. Dr Jones doesn't know diddly squat, but he's super passionate about the heart.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Like so passionate.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Yeah, and I know that's like a silly extreme example.

Speaker 2: 17:37

But it's true.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Yeah, you, passion gets you interested, but discipline keeps you there.

Speaker 2: 17:43

Yeah, exactly, and it it's going to tie into the to the next point, which I'll introduce now because I feel like it's going to tie in really well. So, point number three the best plan is only the best plan is only good intentions, unless it degenerates into work. And, as Henry Ford put it, you can't build a reputation on what you're going to do. So it's not about the destination, so like it's not about being passionate about completing this thing, it's about the journey. It's about actually sticking to it and doing the hard work and going through all the hours of whatever it is that you need to do to get to that destination. But if you're not happy and like passionate, I guess, about the actual process, it doesn't matter if you're passionate about the actual destination, because you likely will not get there if you can't get through the whole journey can you?

Speaker 1: 18:42

so? Would you mind talking about um, because I think it still fits in. Could you share a little bit about um, the point above it? Um, I was getting caught up in, oh my god yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:51

So like he says that um, like, for at least, the whole thing about obsessing um over outcomes is a big thing, because when I started swimming back in December it was terrible. I was messaging all my friends telling them I hate this, I'm not going to be able to do this, like I'm not going to be able to finish, like I even looked online Can I switch my registration to a duathlon so I don't have to do the swim? Because that's how much I was like no, like this is not gonna work. But then then I started swimming more and I got more comfortable and of course, I was still like, doubting the whole thing. And I think, up until this point there's still a part of me that's still doubting the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 19:32

But now I've switched it to like so what if I can't do the swim? Like I'm 100% a better swimmer now than I was in December. So if I can't do this like the swim which I will do the swim, because I'm too freaking stubborn to not do it. But if I can't do it, it's like I've learned so much. So I've come to the conclusion that, like, at this point I'm like I've learned so much. I'm so excited about the fact that I learned this new thing that I don't care anymore if I can or can't do the swim, if I'm going to do it in an hour, if I'm going to do it in 30 minutes, like it doesn't matter because I'm in a way, better spot than I was before, like I'm so much more focused on the daily practice than I am about the actual destination.

Speaker 1: 20:17

I remember when you text me after your first swim.

Speaker 2: 20:19

I still have your audio notes saved too.

Speaker 1: 20:26

I'm pretty sure that was our first fight. You are not happy.

Speaker 2: 20:31

Oh my God, not happy at all. Like not happy at all.

Speaker 1: 20:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Sean, why are you making me do this? Also? Before I even signed up for welland, me and sean are grabbing lunch and I was like, oh, I can't do gravenhurst because my friend's getting married the next day, so it like it doesn't work for me. I was like there's welland, but welland is two kilometers instead of gravenhurst, which is 1.5. And Sean goes what's another 500 meters? Ariana, that's nothing, you just whatever. It's a little bit more, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:04

I still believe that when I'm like and then I went into the pool, couldn't do 25 meters and I was like I am going to kill that man.

Speaker 1: 21:15

Oh, that's so good. Oh, man, you know also like we obsess about the thing we can't do and we, we, it's amazing how fast that we'll sort of triage the things that we can do. You, you are a good cyclist, you can run, but we focus, yeah, and it's funny, right, like the, the, the, the is arguably it's over, like that.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Yeah, I keep like reading, of course, that it's like 2%, 5% or something the whole thing, but to me in my head it's kind of like, yeah, but that's the moment I can actually die, like I can walk.

Speaker 1: 21:50

If I can't run, I can get off my bike, but if I'm'm swimming it's like I'm in the water you know that's yeah, but totally, and and this is also why it's so transformative too, because, um, who was it just telling? So, um, I, I will never forget the moment where I jumped off the boat in gravenhurst and I penciled into the water, and I remember the cold water, just sort of like shocking my system, and as I swam up to take my first breath.

Speaker 1: 22:22

I remember thinking, well, you've really fucking done it now, haven't you? You know they're not going to let you back on the boat. What are you going to do? And so I swim up to the, to the buoy, and I and I just remember you swim the check Mark, and the entire time I didn't know if I could do it. And then, when I saw the, the wooden pier and the ladder that you climb up, yeah it's a feeling I'll never be able to describe.

Speaker 1: 23:00

I'll never be able to describe because just the explosion of like dopamine and serotonin that went off in my brain, there's part. There is no drug that could have ever replicated that and the pride that stuck with me and the high that and it's just like who you become after. It's just like someone has installed like an extra little serotonin factory in your brain and you're just every day you're just happy because you did that thing. And and that's when I really started to get excited about this idea of unimpeachable credentials I just did something that I. I just was handed an award that goes into the trophy shelf of my heart and nobody can take that.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Nobody can take that.

Speaker 2: 23:38

Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's, I feel once I finished my swim. I feel like whatever happens next, like whatever, like I just did this one thing that I truly believe was impossible. So, like I, I can see you're untouchable.

Speaker 1: 23:54

Yeah, I can't wait to chat with you after you do like I'm gonna be cycling crying it's super emotional yeah, I can imagine.

Speaker 2: 24:03

That no like even the other day. It's so funny how I go from like I can't do this swim to I have a really good swim session. I'm like I'm gonna sign up for an iron man, yeah, like from one to the other, which is like I think that's what makes it so exciting.

Speaker 1: 24:21

Like the amount that there is to learn is like insane I'm still not ruling out the idea where you send me a screenshot of you signing up for muskoka you know what it crossed my mind?

Speaker 2: 24:32

yes, I got home from swimming and I was like but what if? Yeah, I was like what if? Well, and goes really well, because it's funny, because the training peaks program that I'm following is a half ironman program curious right, there's like this weird coincidence and I signed up to volunteer, so I like, but do they really need me? Maybe they don't.

Speaker 1: 24:58

Do they actually need me to volunteer to race this?

Speaker 2: 25:03

Maybe they need me to actually race it. We'll see, we'll see, stay tuned. Maybe that'll happen, who knows? At this point nobody knows. So, yeah, like the whole.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Switching over to point number three is it's the whole importance of again not just talking but putting in the work, as, like I said before, ryan says do we sit down alone, struggle with our work, work that may or may not go anywhere, that may be discouraging or painful? Do we love work, making a living to do work, not the other way around? Do we love practice the way great athletes do, or do we chase short-term attention and validation, whether that's indulging in the endless search for ideas or simply the distraction of talk and chatter? And I was listening to an episode from Modern Wisdom where Chris interviewed Lauren Johnson. She was a performance psychologist for the New York Yankees and he asked her what differentiates the average athlete from the elite, and she said the elite athletes are willing to do the things that the average ones aren't. They're willing to pay extra attention to detail, they're willing to remain disciplined, no matter what they're willing to do the work that seems boring, because those little things are the ones that add up to the big ones. Because those little things are the ones that add up to the big ones. And similarly in Atomic Habits, james Clear interviewed the head of the weightlifting team the Chinese weightlifting team and he asked him what's the difference between the best in the world and everybody else? And he said the best in the world can deal with the boredom of daily training. They show up and they grind and I think that's such a big thing because, especially with zone two training and stuff that seems so like monotonous and just so boring and you're like it crosses your head like do I really need to do this? And it's like those are the little things that actually make the biggest difference, like they really add up at the end of the day, and it's like you need to be able to go through those little things. And Confucius said the man who moves mountains begins by moving small stones. And that's like you need to be able to go through those little things. And Confucius said the man who moves mountains begins by moving small stones and that's like that's so big, like it's actually being able to do the stuff that seems so boring and that nobody wants to do, that in the end add up to big things. And I love this.

Speaker 2: 27:10

Austin Kleon was such a great author too. He said do the verb instead of trying to be the noun, so instead of that's so good, eh. When I read that I was like that's good. I actually heard it in another podcast. And so instead of asking yourself, am I a writer, am I an athlete, like stop asking yourself those things. Just do the thing like do the writing, do the training, and then you don't have to worry if you are that thing.

Speaker 1: 27:34

I love that, yeah, and and so, like, how do you think ego ties into this point in particular? Like in, in the sense that I'll just leave it there? How does? Ego tie into the idea of being able to do the boring things.

Speaker 2: 27:50

I think it's easy to think I'm too good to do these little things. Like I'm so fast? Why am I going to do these little things like I'm so fast? Why am I gonna do zone two training super slow, like I don't want that to show up on my strata. I don't want people to think, oh, I thought you were fast, why are you running so slow and it's like no, those little things that seem like you're too good for them actually do make a really big difference here's another example, right?

Speaker 1: 28:14

Um, okay, Sean. So I just started biking, but uh, I realized I fucking can't hold Watts and I suck, so I'm just not going to do this.

Speaker 2: 28:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:26

Okay, fine. So who are you comparing yourself against? Right, let's say person Y, and they're able to hold long watts for an X amount of time. Did you think that they fell off the fucking turnip truck being able to ride like that?

Speaker 2: 28:43

What do?

Speaker 1: 28:44

you think their first ride was like their second, their 12th, their 25th? Why are you above?

Speaker 2: 28:54

the work that that person did Ego? Yeah, it is. It is it's like I wish I I could remember, but I heard this quote on on instagram. It was something like when I think about giving up, I tell myself this is when most people give up. It's like when the stuff gets boring, when it's the little things that you don't want to do. It's like the really long rides or the really slow long runs. But yeah, at the end of the day, those make the biggest difference and you have to suck it up and realize that you're no better than everybody else who's doing those little things.

Speaker 1: 29:21

Absolutely. And then there's also the idea of um, sometimes, when people are so excellent in other areas of their life, they're really comfortable being always excellent. And so it's like wait a second, you're telling me I have to come over and be a beginner again. Being a beginner sucks, yeah, like there's a little bit of the novelty oh, this is cool, I'm going to become this thing. And then you're like oh, it's actually like work. I don't like this.

Speaker 2: 29:48

Yeah, you got to just be it up and just be like I'm gonna look dumb for a bit yeah, and it's like and we talked about that in regards to swimming it was like I've always felt like I was pretty decent at most sports, and then I go into this one thing where I'm like whoa, like I'm a disaster, like, and you just have to be able to be okay with that, like it's okay to suck and also there's an idea of like oh my god, I'm gonna look like such an idiot.

Speaker 1: 30:15

Okay, well, it's okay to suck. And also there's an idea of like oh my God, I'm going to look like such an idiot. Okay, well, it's pretty egotistical that you're going to think that the other 16 in the pool doing their workout are, instead of doing that, they're being like, let's watch him.

Speaker 2: 30:27

You're not that special.

Speaker 1: 30:29

Nobody gives a fuck what you're doing in your lane.

Speaker 2: 30:34

Nobody could care less.

Speaker 1: 30:35

Could care less. Everybody's so into their own lives. Yeah, you know that's, and that's. Ego also like to this idea, this fallacy, that putting yourself in the center of the universe.

Speaker 2: 30:44

Yeah, yeah, right like main character, yeah um, and just to end that point from a quote from the book um, work is finding yourself alone at the track when the weather kept everybody else indoors. Work is pushing through the pain and the crappy first drafts and prototypes. It is ignoring whatever praise others are getting and, more importantly, ignoring whatever praise you are getting, because there's work to be done. Work doesn't want to be done. It is made so, despite the headwind. Good, very good quote I like.

Speaker 2: 31:14

I I like wind imageries I knew you were gonna like that too. I was, like sean's, gonna like the headwind part oh, I did moving on to point number four, what's important to you?

Speaker 2: 31:27

all of us waste precious life doing precious life doing things we don't like, to prove ourselves to people we don't respect and to get things we don't want. That's huge. How many times do you buy things or do things just to look cool to other people and you don't even care about that thing? And reality is, we're never happy with what we have. We want what others have too.

Speaker 2: 31:47

We start out knowing what is important to us, but once we've achieved it, we lose sight of our priorities and all of us regularly say yes without even thinking and out of curiosity, out of fear, out of fear of missing out, because we can't say no, because missing out on something, because we don't want to miss out on something. If we think yes, we'll let us accomplish more, when in reality it prevents us from what we seek. All of us waste precious life doing things we don't like, to prove ourselves to people we don't respect, to get the things we don't want. Even like we were just talking about the open, about feeling pressure to do the open, because it's what everybody's doing and you don't want to be the one who's not doing it and you don't want to feel left out and you want to prove yourself to everybody else by doing it, when in reality, it makes no difference for 99% of us.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Can we huddle on that one for a real quick sec, because we didn't have hot mics when we were chatting about that. Yeah, cause we didn't have hot mics when we were chatting about that. Yeah, so could you. Yeah, it could go, go back to what like what we were actually like. You know, cause you and I were sharing about how we didn't do the open.

Speaker 2: 32:51

Yeah, and like I think we both felt like a bit of pressure to do it, like we should do it, and I felt that too.

Speaker 2: 32:57

I was like maybe I need to figure out, like I need to change my schedule around just to be able to do this, because everyone's talking about it and I see it everywhere and I've done it in the past and you just feel like you should do it, like it's a thing that you need to do because you're in this community. When it's like no, there's no need for me to do it. I'm following my plan for my goals and this has nothing to do with it my goals and this has nothing to do with it. Like, if I want to do it for the fun of it, sure, but it's like there's this constant competition around it too, where it's like every other day of the year you're coming into the gym and you do your workout and you're competing against yourself, but then during this one time of the year, there's this like negative competition thing where it's like I just want to do the open so I can get a better score than everybody else.

Speaker 1: 33:43

So it's the dark side of it. It is so. So you know, let's say, ari does the workout first. Seven people oh, what'd you get, yeah. Or, or even worse, right Message behind your back oh what, what'd she get? Yeah, oh, she did this. Okay, work on that data and reverse engineer how we're going to beat that score. And there's this weird energy to all that.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Yeah, I don't, I don't like it.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Yeah, it's bizarre.

Speaker 2: 34:09

And I'm glad I caught myself midway and I was like, no, I'm not doing the open.

Speaker 1: 34:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:14

Like I'm not at that point. Maybe I will be someday in the future, but it's not my priority right now. So I'm not gonna do it just because everybody else is doing it and because I feel like I have to because I'm in the crossfit community, like yeah, you do not have to do the fucking open like just flat out.

Speaker 1: 34:31

I'm just gonna go out there and say it, you know, because I, I get, I catch it every year right. Oh sean, shouldn't you be leading from the front and doing? You know? Shouldn't you be leading your community through this fucking? No, you know, you want to know what I do. I lead my community every day. I don't lead it through the three weeks a year where like you just.

Speaker 1: 34:50

And so we live in this, in this era of where people just um gatekeep things and they redefine it because they've proclaimed themselves because, oh look, I'll just say this on social media, so then that, just, that's going to be true, right, because I said it where it stays permanent on the internet. No, you just permanently looked like an idiot. To me, the open should fit into your competitive plans if it gets you excited. There is a. There are actually Sean, sean. I was just a rabbit hole on this one. I'm gonna leave it right there because I mean that I think my point stands that, like um, to be a crossfitter is is to get yourself to a functional competency where um like let's. I keep using your as an example, cause you're a great example, but, like you know, ari has a big deadlift, a big back squat. She can do pull-ups, she can run fast, jump Um right. Like I can keep going. Ari's the flex, she's already there so sweet.

Speaker 1: 36:00

You're the thing right, like we were chatting before, you are the end product of what CrossFit always intended you to make you to be. So now you're going and expressing that stuff and learning other things, only going and doing even more. So what CrossFit always hoped you'd go and do, crossfit never was like yeah, we're making, we're building you up so you can always do the open. These two things can coexist, agreed, and we can get off each other's back about it. If it's not working for Ari this year, take a hike, go do the open, cause guess what Ari's going to do? Cheer for you.

Speaker 2: 36:34

Yeah, exactly, and like nothing against, I did the open last year, I had a blast. Did the open the year before, loved it, loved it, had a blast. Maybe I'll do it next year and love it, but like there's no need to feel pressured to do it, like if it's not gonna add value to you and your journey, then what's the point?

Speaker 1: 36:51

yeah, and also hey, if you're going through a real hard time in life, the open may not be a good idea. Yeah, because like blasting your brains out in a mechcon is like to me, it's like getting a sunburn and going into a fucking tanning booth to fix it. Yeah, bad idea.

Speaker 2: 37:08

Just an added stress.

Speaker 1: 37:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:11

So early on we usually know what's important to us and we seek out to achieve those goals, but then we often find ourselves comparing our accomplishments to others and feeling like we're not doing enough. It's like we're in a race where everyone is trying to outdo each other. But what if we're all running a different race? What if success means something different to us? It's a reminder that we shouldn't get too caught up in comparing ourselves to others, because we're all on our own unique journey. What makes one person feel accomplished might not be the same that makes another person feel accomplished, and Sean shared this video with this like little training group we're in um with from nick bear, where he says you can't compare your chapter one or your year one to someone's chapter 10 or year 10.

Speaker 2: 37:50

It's wrong for you to try and compare yourself to someone who's running 70 miles a week. Find your chapter one, your day one, and be in that. Learn and grow and slowly progress. You have to be patient and I think it's so easy to get caught up and I feel like I find myself in that, where I'm like maybe I should be running more, maybe I should be cycling more, because like so-and-so is doing that, or whatever it may be.

Speaker 2: 38:12

When it's like no, like this is where I am on my journey, like on my plan, on my process, and I should be in that and not try to speed up things because someone else is doing this amount. It's like no, this is where I am on mine. And it's like I was even talking to my sister she wants to start running and I told her I was like I'm completely in to start running together and I'm like and we'll start slow, like there's no need for us to try and go so long together when you're just starting out. It's like let's be in that, like and what you're the point of your journey, not try to speed things up because of what I'm doing or what someone else is doing yeah, or like someone might say to you but ari, I'm not as, I'm not as fast as you like.

Speaker 1: 38:57

You care right?

Speaker 2: 38:59

you hear that sometimes, right and it's like, it's like my chapter one or my day one is very different from yours, like maybe you've been swimming when you were a kid, you did so many lessons and then now you get back into it. Then, of course, mine doesn't look like yours, like I never swam a day in my life. So it's of course it's going to be completely different. And, according to Seneca, there's a Greek word, euthymia. Probably saying euthymia is one we should think of often. It is a sense of our own path and how to stay on it without getting distracted by all the others that intersect it. In other words, it's not about beating the other guy, it's not about having more than others. It's about being what you are and being as good as possible at it, without giving in to all the things that draw you away from it. It's about going where you set out to go about, about accomplishing the most that you're capable of and what you choose. That's it, no more and no less. So good, so yeah, I think it's just it's important to find what's important to you and how to get to the destination that you want to get, how to have the best journey towards that destination, and forget about everybody else, because everybody is on a different journey. Everybody else has different needs, wants and, again, it's not the same for everybody. So it's just focusing on you, staying on your own lane and not comparing yourself so much. Point number five Bo Jackson wouldn't get impressed when he hit a home run or ran for a touchdown because he knew he hadn't done it Perfect. And this is characteristic characteristic of how great people think. It's not that they find failure in every success. They just hold themselves to a standard that exceeds what society might consider to be objective success. Because of that, they don't care much about what other people think. They care. They care whether they meet their own standards. These standards are much, much higher than everyone else's. In summary, maintain your own scorecard. Forget about trying to impress other people. You've got to be your own judge. So, instead of focusing on external approval, focus on your own standards of excellence. The way you'll fulfillment and and authenticity in what you do, no matter what anyone thinks, is by focusing on you, on you and being your own judge. Again, maintaining your own scorecard.

Speaker 2: 41:11

I love that chapter. I thought that chapter was it's so good. So good because I think it's so easy. Like I've said to friends in the past, like or like we're talking about training. I'm like, oh, I ran this much, I cycle this much. And they get really excited and they're like, oh, that's so good. And I think it's like it's such a weird thing, because you don't want to sound cocky and be like like I was okay, like it could have been, it could have been better, because you know it could have been better. So it's like I think it's. It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks or what everyone's saying it's. You got to have your own scorecard of what you think is good, cause you know what you're capable of and you know how much training you put in or how much work you put into that thing. So no one can judge it, because only you know there's and there's yeah, me too.

Speaker 1: 41:58

And there's so much in the authenticity, like I was just reading on the on the screen, your notes, and I just like my eye was just like sitting on that word authenticity. There's just so much there for me, like, um, when it comes to ego, from a you know, for example, I know that my ego has sort of taken over if I'm starting to not be authentic, if I'm like, let's say, something happened and somebody said something and I had an emotional response where I feel now less than, and I started trying to prove no, I'm not less than now. Here are some reasons why no, like, and so we're all vulnerable to this in some way. And so, if you think about your authentic self, one of your most natural states is the without ego, that the version of you, that it doesn't need to prove that you're better than anybody, that you need to prove something, that you have a lot of stuff, that you're more beautiful than anybody like that person exists.

Speaker 1: 43:03

And so the the the farther you get away, the farther inauthentic you feel. And that's where, I think, a lot of like our, you know, a lot of the, the depression and anxiety that underpins a lot of society comes right now, cause everyone's acting really not that authentic sometimes and, um, you know, the internet has helped really perpetuate new definitions of what, uh, beauty standards are, what a man is supposed to look like and be right. It's so confusing, uh, is it okay to like have a beard and wear flannel and want to like cut down a tree, or is that toxic masculinity?

Speaker 1: 43:41

Like you know, there's all these gatekeeping ideas of like and it comes back to what Ari's saying and what Ryan's saying in this Like, you have to have your scorecard and be like no, this feels right for me and this is actually who I am and I'm gonna act, I'm gonna be proud, even though I know that there's a subset of people out there who are going to be like no, sean's actually bad. And I'm going to be like no, sean's actually good. And I'm not going to listen to you anymore.

Speaker 2: 44:09

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 44:11

So, yeah, and Ryan says make a distinction between the inner scorecard and the external one. Your potential, the absolute best you're capable of, that's the metric to measure yourself against. Your standards are winning is not enough. People can get lucky and win. People can be assholes and win. Anyone can win, but not everyone is the best possible version of themselves. So it's again it's whatever feels right to you. You know the work that you've done, you know the journey that you've been on. So there's no reason and there's no benefit in comparing it to somebody else's or trying to let somebody else judge what you're doing and whether you're doing too much or whether you're doing too little, whether you're being too obsessed or this or that. When it's like it's what's true to you, like what feels right for you and this is what matters at the end of the day, like so let's say you've worked super hard and you've you've gotten um.

Speaker 1: 45:04

You know what are your latest? Like Ari, if you don't know, creates like these incredibly in-depth and beautiful looking websites like um. Let's say you've created something right and it's almost ready to bring it to the client, or like launch it. Or or you know um, and then someone you don't respect comes over and is like oh uh, oh no bad.

Speaker 1: 45:25

This is shit, right, and it starts to like rattle. So my question there and you just sort of reminded me of this is like, okay, well, like, would you have had that person in the room when you were making decisions in the early days? If the answer is no, then that person's definitely sitting in the bleachers. They're in the nosebleeds, they don't, they don't deserve to have front row seats to your um day. If you would.

Speaker 2: 45:53

It's that whole idea of like trying to impress people we don't respect. Um, yeah, yeah, no, I, I completely agree, yeah, and switch, just changing gears slightly and sometimes, sometimes, we fail. Just I just want to touch on that point. Um, and failure isn't the end of the road. It's actually probably the best teacher people learn from failure. Seldom did they learn anything from success.

Speaker 2: 46:16

And again it goes back to the whole thing that success isn't about winning, it's about doing what your best is. It's about putting in the effort that you set out to put, and if things don't go your way, it still counts for something. And in the book he says when you fail, do you want that to be a lose-lose situation or do you want to make that a lose-win situation, which is like, why wouldn't you right, like you've? You've clearly learned something by failing at that thing, so it's like you can learn from that and do better next time. And that's what I keep telling myself too in regards to like the triathlon I'm doing. It's like I know there's going to be a bajillion things that are going to go wrong. Yeah, and it's like I can let that get to me or I can be like okay, well, now I learned all these things because I've learned from them.

Speaker 1: 47:03

Yeah, there's a. There's a ton of ego tied up in that point. Yeah, in, in in the idea of someone's willingness to quote, unquote, lose, and how they define that for themselves.

Speaker 2: 47:19

How you yeah, how you deal with failure and not getting what it is that you want. And to just end that point on a really good quote, reflecting on what went well or how amazing we are, doesn't get us anywhere, except maybe to where we are right now. But we want to go further. We want more, we want to continue to improve. However, ego blocks that, so we have to absorb it and smash it with continually higher standards. Not that we are endlessly pursuing more as if we're racked with greed, but instead we're inching our way towards real improvement with discipline rather than disposition. I'm all about bigger goals after doing other things. So yeah, because why not?

Speaker 2: 47:58

like yeah, just it makes life so much more exciting to look forward to this thing that you thought you couldn't do before, and then you put all your work into it and then you're able to do it Like there's so much to gain from that.

Speaker 1: 48:12

I find the sport of triathlon has actually created a bit of an insurance policy on my own ego in the sense that it keeps me really humble. Policy on my own ego in the sense that it keeps me really humble. I'm always around somebody who's way better than me, or somebody who has started after me, who is like not where I'm at yet, and so being suspended in that healthy tension of experience on the polar ends of it keeps me really like wow, because I go. I want to become like you're, I want to be you when I grow up. And then I also go wow, I'm so grateful I showed up in like that snowstorm in January and didn't stop this. It makes me grateful but also keeps me pushing, and that's the same with cycling and that's the same with running and um. So this sport is just such a great way to like this book and the sport quite go, they go together.

Speaker 2: 49:09

They go really well together. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:12

Um, and then another thing I was thinking about here is that, like with the, with the idea of like always pushing and it's not about greed Um, I'm hungry for this idea of stillness. I yearn and crave for this feeling of flow and I find it in the pool when I'm and I've I've recently found it doing these five hundreds and I don't mean that to be a fucking humble brag, to do 500 meters. You know, my it's not like I'm doing that, it's sprinting, but I, I've, I forget, and I it's not like I'm doing that, sprinting, but I forget, and all I am is this thing and I'm breathing, and it's just quiet in the pool and I'm suspended in that and I'm so fucking grateful for that little moment there. And just like I solve problems, that happens for me on the bike, doesn't happen so much on the run. The run gives me something else. It like gives me-.

Speaker 2: 50:06

Anxiety. I'm joking.

Speaker 1: 50:09

Knee pain.

Speaker 2: 50:11

Anger, I can't wait for this to be over. It's funny. A lot of the times I'm on the treadmill and I'm like why do people complain about the pool? And I'm like I feel so much more at peace at the pool than I do on the treadmill so much more at peace at the pool than I do on the treadmill.

Speaker 1: 50:25

You know, the treadmill is crazy because I feel like there's a whole bunch of electromagnetic energy. Oh, maybe that I don't think is very good for us.

Speaker 2: 50:31

Oh, I never even thought of that.

Speaker 1: 50:32

Yeah, I the the nobody. Yeah, treadmill running is sucks, and especially if you do it in a um, in a theater of cardio equipment, I think it's worse. The cardio equipment just has a bad energy to that room. That room does have a funny energy, but that same distance out, some of it through a trail, some of it through that nice neighborhood feels so different.

Speaker 2: 50:53

Yeah, it's yeah, that's my theory anyways yeah, but no, the whole thing with greed. I agree with you. It's like it's not. It's not greed, like it's not that I'm like I want to do more and more and more and more and more. It's like it's not greed, like it's not that I'm like I want to do more and more and more and more and more. It's like it's what makes me feel good. So why? Why is that wrong? Yeah, like I'm doing something that's genuinely good for me, like, and that cascades into my relationships and like my work and everything. Yeah, so why is it like? I don't think it should be seen as oh, you need to chill out. Like you're doing too much. Like, why you feel like you need to do all these things? It's like, no, it's genuinely what makes me happy, and I feel like that's so hard to explain.

Speaker 1: 51:31

In a world where it's so hard to find something that makes us happy, you've found something.

Speaker 2: 51:36

Yeah, exactly, and but there is, I feel, like this negative thing where it's like it comes across as you're doing too much. It's like it comes across as you're doing too much, you're trying too hard, or this, that it's like, no, I'm very happy doing this.

Speaker 1: 51:46

There are a lot of negative tropes Like. One of them if you haven't heard already, you'll hear is that triathletes are running away from something.

Speaker 2: 51:53

And I flipped that. That's so silly.

Speaker 1: 51:55

I reframed that.

Speaker 2: 51:58

I'm like no triathletes are running towards something 100%, yeah, yeah. And there's tough days too, like a friend of mine was like I imagine you waking up in the morning at like 5 am all excited, like jumping out of bed, like I cannot wait to be at the gym, and I'm like sure, there are days that I'm like that, but there's a lot of days that I'm like but why don't? Can I just stay in bed? Like why do I have to go? Like those days happen a lot. Like there's a lot of times that I'm like I could just stay in here. I'm so warm.

Speaker 1: 52:27

Like.

Speaker 2: 52:27

I don't want to be there, but it's like it's no, like I've made a commitment to myself, so like I'm going to keep that, and like that's a big thing because that cascades to other things too. It's like it's the little things, it's keeping that promise that you made. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:44

The joy of not going to like, the joy of going and hitting that swim and being keeping the momentum going is just one or 2% higher than the joy of staying in the warm bed.

Speaker 2: 52:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:59

They're pretty close, but it's just enough to get you out of bed. And when you do it you're so glad you did yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:09

And I heard Ryan saying this on another podcast, where he was like there's also this negative connotation with discipline where people are like, yeah, but like having so much structure like that, that's so boring. Like you have no freedom, like you're so stuck in that rigid like structure. He says no, he's like actually I have more freedom than you do because I'm not being controlled by all these outside things. I'm doing this by choice. Like this is freedom. I'm picking to do these things and I'm like that's that's so true too. It's not, it's not boring. Like there's, I love love structure, I love routine. Like every time I go on vacation for a bit, after a while I'm like cannot wait to be back home, like I just want to be back in my routine, in my structure. Like there's so much freedom to that.

Speaker 1: 53:57

And it's it works for everybody too. So, for example, like what Ari is talking about is is, uh, by leaning into structure is actually giving you the most freedom possible, yeah, and it allows you to make the choices that you want to make on your terms and gives you it gives you total agency. And so I have a cool example of this One of my clients who, I would say, by nature, kind of wings it, but he's very successful, wildly so, and I think he might be, like you know, one of these guys who's like a bit of a genius in his craft and I would say he's a winger right Winging it every day to see what happens, do my best and he just you know, but lately, over the last four or five months, I've noticed that he's really started to like, have a relationship with structure and like, and he recently just said to me, you know, he got back after being away and he's just like, you know what.

Speaker 1: 54:58

Oh God, I just, I, just I really am really starting to like my routine, sean. Like I'm just so glad to be here right now. And then just I really am really starting to like my routine, Sean, Like I'm just so glad to be here right now, and then what, what tomorrow is going to be, and then what the next day is going to be, and I'm like just smiling like, yeah, like routines there for everybody.

Speaker 2: 55:15

Yeah, yeah. As long as you're doing what you enjoy, then, oh my God, there's, it's so good yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:21

Yeah, and, and you know, talking about ego and chasing flow and stillness and stuff, it might be a good idea for us to do Ryan Holiday's Stillness is the Key.

Speaker 2: 55:33

OK, I haven't. I haven't At some point yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:35

Yeah, it's a great companion because you've read Obstacle.

Speaker 2: 55:39

I haven't. I'm like still reading Obstacles OK.

Speaker 1: 55:42

Yeah, Um.

Speaker 2: 55:42

so I think, but we can do stillness.

Speaker 1: 55:44

Stillness is a great uh companion to ego. They're like you know, so I, I, I look forward to you know.

Speaker 2: 55:51

Oh yeah, 100%, I'm down.

Speaker 1: 55:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:53

We'll do it. He's such a great writer. Yeah, yeah, like you read it and you're like you did you write this specifically for me? Did you like this is for you? Like that's how he feels, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:09

And it, just it, just one of these books that can always be a companion for any time you're going through something. I've read the books I don't remember but multiple times, and every single time it's always fresh.

Speaker 2: 56:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:24

It's like the Bible for some people.

Speaker 2: 56:25

And it's a very easy read too Like.

Speaker 1: 56:27

Yeah, highly recommend it, yeah it doesn't get all convoluted and complicated with stuff. So so that's our recap on on ego is the enemy, so overall 10.

Speaker 2: 56:44

10? Not even going to let you finish your sentence you're going 10 out of 10 oh he, it's like I said, he's speaking to your soul. It's. It's pretty incredible, even listening to him, like I was listening to him on um stephen bartlett's podcast, even him talking. I also own a daily stoic oh yeah, such a good one too.

Speaker 1: 57:03

Like you, just read a page a day and yeah and sometimes you read and you're like well, this is weirdly fitting to my current life situation and it's good I'll, I'll, I'll like, read the same page from like last year when I read it, and then, like, I'll highlight a like a new thing on that oh, I love that.

Speaker 2: 57:21

I love that you're highlighting. I should start making notes on the pages.

Speaker 1: 57:24

That'd be so cool to look back yeah, if you that, I want to just like it's beat to shit oh, I see it, it's like all the spines all walk um. So I would. I would totally agree with our. I give it a 10 out of 10. It's an absolute must read and for anybody who's trying to reach higher or, you know, fight for something or become something different, or just wants more.

Speaker 2: 57:48

It's a wonderful co-pilot 100% agree. Go read it.

Speaker 1: 57:58

This concludes your reading with Ari. Thank you so much for tuning in and thank you so much for driving all the way down.

Speaker 2: 58:05

No, thank you, thank you, can't wait for the next one.