The Athletic Journey of Ultraman Champion Tara Norton

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to another edition of the Red Leaf Fitness podcast, A show dedicated to bringing you stories, interviews and conversations about living a healthy, resilient and productive life. I'm your host, Sean Blinch, and I want to thank you for making time to listen to this episode today and, if you like what we're putting down, we would love it if you would follow, rate and share this podcast. All right, now let's get down to business. Welcome back to the Red Leaf Fitness podcast on Friday, December 29,. Still 2023. I am sitting here with Tara Norton. Coach. Tara Norton, how are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:46

I am great Happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Yeah, happy to have you. So how's your morning been so far?

Speaker 2: 0:54

So far, so good. I'm a little discombobulated because I just got back from BC and I think we got home about 1.30 in the morning.

Speaker 1: 1:05

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 1:06

And our descent on the flight. Maya had sinus pressure issues, so that was a bit challenging. But all is fine, Happy to be home.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Oh, my Tara, you Okay. Well, I'm honored that you came in. Of course you know you must be exhausted. It's all good Time, change too, right? You know I'm thinking BC, right yeah?

Speaker 2: 1:28

Yeah, but we kind of we actually. Well, I sort of stayed on Toronto time when I was there. So, got up early, went to bed early when I was there, so it wasn't so bad. Getting up wasn't bad, it was just being up a little late, that's okay.

Speaker 1: 1:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:44

That's not unusual for me.

Speaker 1: 1:45

Yeah, you're used to it, you're a.

Speaker 2: 1:48

Well, I'm used to not getting enough sleep.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Yeah, unfortunately, I am also used to that. That's also something I'm too familiar with. Okay, so super excited to have you on the show. I'm excited for our members and some of our external listeners to hear your story, learn about all the amazing things that you do. Now can we talk about some of that stuff First? Can you go right to the beginning and start with the very first thing?

Speaker 2: 2:24

Born in 1971. Hey yo, now you know how old I am. Yeah, born in Toronto, born and raised here, grew up with one sister. My parents divorced when I was nine my parents, I know we're going to head towards my triathlon and that kind of part of my life so when I was younger they put me in every sport. It seemed like every sport so gymnastics or skating, t-ball, swimming, so yeah, when I was 11 and 12, I swam competitively, but basically I grew up in Toronto, I went to public school, have one sister. Yeah, that was the very beginning. That is the very beginning.

Speaker 1: 3:23

So okay, so there's already some stuff there for me. So you know, have someone who is so developed in sport, it had to start somewhere, a spark. And so for a lot of people not everybody, but for a lot of people there is something that's been planted really early with them. Your parents put you into a lot of different programs. Yeah, Do you think that that is what drove you to where you are today, or a different path?

Speaker 2: 3:54

I think it did in part. The irony of it is I did all those sports when I was quite young and swam very competitively 11 and 12. So even then I actually started swimming a little bit later, at 11. I guess it's not that late, but some kids were in it much earlier. And after 12, when I went to high school, I did nothing.

Speaker 2: 4:18

I did no sport in high school from nine until basically grade 13, where I started to swim a little bit again on the swim team. So I was too cool, it was like my social time and 11 and 12, I was doing the five in the morning practices, the weekend swim meets, and so when I went to high school I quit everything. So I didn't do a lot of sport until really the second year of university. So that's a bit maybe surprising to some people.

Speaker 2: 4:50

I think growing up doing all the sports made it so that I was athletic in some way. I remember my friend Jen saying she was jealous because my dad taught me how to throw a baseball and so I was. You know I was a jock to her and she thought that was really cool and she was really jealous of the fact that I could throw a baseball well, and she would see us because we lived on the same street. You know me throwing the ball back and forth with my dad. So I think that doing all of the sports at a young age definitely played a role in eventually where I ended up. But while in high school I didn't do anything except be social.

Speaker 1: 5:32

So what happened?

Speaker 2: 5:33

You hit grade nine and a light went off and you were like I just thought I don't want to get up at you know four in the morning and I just want to be with my friends. And at the time coaches were like you can't stop, you know you're really gifted. And friends parents were like you can't stop, you know you could go really far in this sport. So later that caused some regret for me, like I wished I had kept going in it, but at the time I was perfectly fine with my decision.

Speaker 1: 6:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Because I was going to high school and I was going to be way more fun not to get up at four in the morning and swim that much.

Speaker 1: 6:12

But it tracks though. Like you know, as I'm sure you know, when it comes to sleep, teenagers are biologically wired to not get up early, stay up late. So, you know that's a really natural thing. Like you know, I'm really impressed when I see teenagers who are able to hold a schedule like that, when they have a lot of like chemicals going on inside their brain, telling them you should, you should be sleeping at this hour. You should be up until one in the morning.

Speaker 2: 6:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I just I just had enough of that much swimming at that point and wanted to be with my friends, and my parents never pushed me. Actually it was more of the coaches and the other parents that were the ones that kind of even made me think twice about later or what would have happened, I think, if I had kept going, because I was so confident with my decision in the time. It was only later that I was like oh man, I wonder how far I could have gone if I kept going. I only swam for two years and I think that decision not to continue in swimming, which later also happened in rowing, prompted me to turn pro as an Ironman, because I never pursued a sport to my full like potential.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Wow.

Speaker 2: 7:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:43

So that, oh, I love this already. All right, I want to. Okay, I have a question for you. I want to talk about that in particular after the question. So I follow a local pro. I think her name is Miranda Thompson.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Thompson, thompson, thank you.

Speaker 1: 8:04

You know her? Yeah, not Spratt.

Speaker 2: 8:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:06

Yeah, so she made a post a little while ago about a swim change that she was making, about how little swimming she's actually doing to maintain her proficiency in the pool, and it blew my mind what someone like her and you know, when you guys you know how what you consider would be a low amount of swimming, and then she compared what cause she used to be a pro swimmer or she used to be just a more competitive swimmer, and how many kilometers in the pool she would have done during her like peak swim time. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 8:52

Yeah, and I guess it's excuse me. I guess it's all relative right, in part because if you're training like she used to as a pro without you know like now I know she's working and same with me working it's very different. There isn't the same amount of time to train those kind of hours and get enough recovery and so on.

Speaker 1: 9:16

So, yeah, for her it would feel like a lot less, I am sure, but to some people maybe not so could you kind of paint a picture of what for people who don't understand really swimming right, what would be a lot of swimming for someone who is like a competitive swimmer?

Speaker 2: 9:39

And from pure competition and competitive swimmer. I only know it from when I swam as a kid, very, you know very intimately, and that was a long time ago, but I know that even kids these days that are going into that competitive stream, it's a lot of hours in the pool. So even when you're, you know, yeah, 11 and 12, you're there for an hour and a half, maybe two hours at a time and multiple days per week, yeah, and it's also different if you're doing a pure sport, like one sport. So a competitive swimmer is going to be in the pool a lot more than someone who's training for triathlon, where they have to fit in three sport.

Speaker 1: 10:26

So they could be up six hours almost at a minimum.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Oh easily, yeah, oh easily.

Speaker 1: 10:34

So what are the kilometers? With adequate two of swimming, you think?

Speaker 2: 10:43

Isn't that just a few arrows? Yeah, I mean most. You know, if I do the math, if you're swimming like a 130 per hundred, you know you can figure out how many K that is. So you know, competitive swimmers aren't swimming two and three minute kilometers, they're swimming much faster than that. But of course it depends on the workout. You know, sometimes they're doing like sprint workouts where it's less mileage but it's a lot more intensity, like we do on the bike and other other sports.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Yeah so.

Speaker 2: 11:16

I think you have segments, too, where you do more of an endurance or a mileage stint. You have your sprints, yeah yeah, your tempo, like there's lots of different. So I think each workout also is a different amount of distance.

Speaker 1: 11:33

That's true. Yeah, I I maybe I should pull up the post, but I think she said something that she was doing around like like 35 kilometers a week. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:46

Yeah, it's not. It's not. It's pretty easy to to get there. If you're swimming, you know an hour and a half multiple times.

Speaker 1: 11:56

Right yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:58

Or or a two hour workout.

Speaker 1: 12:01

It just blew my mind. And as a, you know, as a swim coach take yourself, I was, you know. That was definitely something I wanted to pick your brain about.

Speaker 2: 12:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:10

Um wow.

Speaker 2: 12:11

And I think too this isn't Miranda and pros, this is, you know, for people who are learning to swim, there's definitely some benefit to doing a stint where you do a lot of hours. It wouldn't be that kind of distance, but, you know, swimming is all about efficiency and it's all about technique and it's those neurological pathways. So there's a big benefit to doing at least a timeframe or especially, you know, as you're learning to solidify those pathways, you could do a swim focus, which would be a lot more hours than normal, in order to change those patterns. Yeah, yeah, if possible. Not everyone has the time to get to the pool that many times, but it can be very beneficial, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:58

Getting, actually getting yourself into the pools not the most convenient thing.

Speaker 2: 13:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:03

You have to bring your stuff, your yeah yeah. The hours of the pools. Where is the pool in relation to if you're going to school or work after? I find the pool hard. It's not that accessible from a convenient standpoint.

Speaker 2: 13:16

Yeah, and certainly in the middle of the winter, getting into a cold pool it's all that inspiring, that too right. It's great once you're in.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:24

It's like most things once you start, it feels it's pretty great, Right, and even better when it's all over.

Speaker 1: 13:29

Yeah, hardest parts showing up, yeah, yeah, and like there's a different kind of hunger after a swim. I find there's just something 100%.

Speaker 2: 13:38

My theory is that it's your body, especially my body, that doesn't tolerate cold water. There's a lot of energy expenditure to stay warm and, to you know, be almost naked in water. Yeah, I think you burn a lot of calories. Yeah, swimming Right. You're not alone. The the comment of oh my God, after a swim, I am so hungry.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:01

It's, it's very common.

Speaker 1: 14:03

Oh yeah, it's, it's so different. Um, you know an interesting thing about swimming and this is definitely poetic justice for any of the you know folks that aren't that interested in putting on muscle mass. Swimming is extremely hard for someone like me.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:25

I like to tell people that I was born a hammer and I know how to do one thing. In its effort, I smash. Yeah Until it works for me. I'm not really all that gifted, I'm not that talented, um, and swimming is one of these things that stood in direct opposition to me, and the more I did it, the harder I would work. The it just would not work yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:48

Swimming can be very frustrating that way, because it is absolutely true that just because you work harder, it doesn't mean you go faster.

Speaker 1: 14:57

No, I know you are not alone.

Speaker 2: 14:59

Yeah, yeah. So I've been the same for me. It's the same for me. Yeah, it's all about technique. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:09

It's like a golf swing or something.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah, and you'll have people that are so impressive because if their form isn't or if they didn't swim as a kid yet they work so hard. You can get, you can do pretty well working hard, but you need to have that. You need to have that technique, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:32

And I was going to say about you being more hungry after you might be slightly more hungry than someone else who has better efficiency. Yes, right, so you're working really hard when you're in the pool.

Speaker 1: 15:43

Absolutely yeah that was the case right from the beginning, I was um Kelvin, which you know coach, yeah, big shout out love that guy.

Speaker 1: 15:51

So, he would. He would stop me. And when I first got in the pool he would stop me and just be like you're working way too hard. I'm like, no, I'm fine man, Good, Because then you know, when you come from a CrossFit background, you're used to being anaerobic all the time. Yeah, I'm, I'm really comfortable with a high heart rate and then doing more shit. Yeah, Um, but that's not. And then it took me a while to get there and he'd be like, no, like, but everyone else is swimming. I'm just standing here Like I'm ready, Like you're not ready. Look at your, look at your chest. Yeah, you know, he was really blunt and good with me.

Speaker 2: 16:24

Yeah, that's great, it's great. Um, you need to slow it down, you need to break it up and you need to be patient, and that's hard for someone like you and us. Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:36

I just want to smash. I'm a hammer. Um, swimming has been one of the most, uh, enjoyable things that I've gotten into in the last um few years, so I'm interested to hear um, I want to go back to the story, um, and I want to hear uh, so we left off at high school, got into university. Can you pick back up there?

Speaker 2: 17:04

Yeah, so I went to Trent university and, uh, again, in my first year I swam on the swim team, but it was a pretty casual swim team. You know, you go to other universities and they're like tryouts and it's a big deal to make the swim team and they are very competitive Trent, not so much just like their football team, which I think they didn't have, but, um, a very small university with not a lot of, uh, competitiveness, except for in rowing. It was a big rowing school. So in my first year I swam on the casual swim team, um, and it was, uh, my second year that I tried out for rowing, um, and so rowing became my competitive sport for the duration of my university years.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Uh, it was also where I dabbled and started and tried triathlon. So when I was on the swim team there was a guy, aaron Tims, and his brother, stefan Tims, was the alternate for Simon Whitfield going into the first, you know, the first time triathlon was in the Olympics, and he said, hey, tara, you should do a triathlon. And he started the triathlon club, uh, at Trent. Wow, and I was like triathlon, what's that? It's pretty funny.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Anyways, I stood, you know, I did like the swim portion of a relay and then I did some sprints at university where I used my mountain bike and then I put slick tires on it and you know, I kind of progressed. But it was, there was more of an indoor series there that I did and I got quite into doing the three sports, uh, on the indoor. So stationary bike and indoor track, um. But rowing was really what I did very competitively, starting out with my second year, all the way through um, and I took that on full force. So I rode all the way through to my fourth year.

Speaker 2: 18:52

I was president of the rowing club, ran the head of the Trent and even rode that following summer, because at that point I was finding myself in this position, kind of like swimming, like, well, what do I do? Do I go and do a career, just like, do I go and do high school and keep swimming? Or you know, do high school and keep swimming, or, uh, or do I keep trying to row and make the Olympic team? And Olympics was kind of a big goal of mine once I realized I'd quit swimming and that might have been. I mean, who knows, so many people get like one one hundredth of making the Olympics and swimming, but of a second Um. But I I thought, oh, should I? Should I go for rowing and see if I can make the Olympics in this sport? And I knew that I wouldn't make the next Olympics. So then it would be another four years, so that would be like six years, and I was like, well, I'm not willing to dedicate that much time to that sport to maybe make the Olympics. Um, so I quit rowing and became a massage therapist. Yeah, but rowing was big for me and I did it very seriously.

Speaker 2: 20:01

So when Canadian nationals in a pair and like, took it, took it pretty far.

Speaker 1: 20:07

Wow.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:10

I learned something already. Wow, so okay, wow, this is interesting, so Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:18

So then I basically I became a massage therapist and that's a pretty intensive two year program where it's full time Um and uh and ended up really focusing on that. So once I was done I thought, oh you know, maybe I'll try a triathlon again. So I bought a road bike for the first time and did a sprint triathlon. I think it was in Barry, water was freezing, I think I was the only person who didn't own a wetsuit Um, and did a sprint triathlon and loved it, just loved it. So I had from there that classic progression of sprint to Olympic distance. But I need to. I want to do, you know, half iron distance and now I have to complete an Ironman.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Yeah, Um can you, um, can we just um hang on on on that phase just for a little bit. I just I'm curious. So, um, how, when, when was that? What was that?

Speaker 2: 21:19

So probably yeah, like 19,. It might have still been in the 90s, like 98 or something like that in 98, 99. My first iron distance race, I think, was like 2002. So I'm, you'll learn about me, I'm terrible with my own statistics. Usually people tell me what my times were and my placings and all that. But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty sure my first Ironman was 2002. So it would have been around 98, 99. Okay.

Speaker 1: 21:57

What happened for maybe 2001?

Speaker 2: 21:58

Anyways, yeah, it's all a blur in the long time ago.

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yeah, I'm not one of those people that can, like you know, pinpoint the year of something and be like those. Those people are incredible. Yeah, I do that.

Speaker 2: 22:11

I have their life catalog.

Speaker 1: 22:12

Yeah, so what? What happened for you when you did your track like your sprint? Why did you love it? I think well, and this sort of happened with me at university.

Speaker 2: 22:21

With the first time that I did all three sports, I immediately fell in love with the fact that it was the challenge of the three and the transitions. I just thought it was really cool, really fun and really interesting that it wasn't just one sport. And for me, when I got on the bike, I really fell in love with the bike and felt in my element and my this was like really fun. So I think that the the fact that I had a swim background meant that the swim wasn't daunting like many. Um, and the biking I immediately felt like it was my thing. And I think there have been times later where I thought, oh, I probably should have raced bikes, you know, because I, I, yeah, I think I could do it, because I, I, yeah, I think I could have, yeah, but by then, one, it was, in my opinion, too late and two, it had too many crashes and so I wasn't willing to do anything but a possible time trial where, you know, the chances of crashing were almost, like almost to zero.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Yeah, so um.

Speaker 1: 23:42

Are you referring to the kind of like the Peloton style stuff?

Speaker 2: 23:44

Yeah, the crashing and those.

Speaker 1: 23:45

It's pretty gnarly, isn't it Like?

Speaker 2: 23:47

yeah, yeah, and, and my biking skills were triathlon, which were non drafting, so I would have had to have spent quite a bit of time learning all the technique to actually race bikes you know properly and be be good at it. Um, but it was the bike that I I really fell in love with. And then, yeah, I just I just loved the, the challenge of the three. Um, if you told me I would race Ironman professionally after my first Ironman, I would not have believed you. But 25 Ironman later, oh my God.

Speaker 1: 24:25

You've done 25 Ironman.

Speaker 2: 24:28

I think I again I've lost count. At one point I'd figured out I'd broken as many bones as Ironman that I'd done, which was 25, but I think I think it. I think it's still 25. Not sure, oh, that is exceptional.

Speaker 1: 24:40

That is exceptional. Oh my God, it's um, okay, so that part really interests me. You know, when someone like you and um, you know what happened for you, right, like what was that spark? And so for you, um, it sounds like it was. It was the, the intrigue of the three, it almost like it. It wasn't three sports, it's kind of one.

Speaker 2: 25:05

Yeah, that's what you like. And I think I think one of the reasons that I did as well as I did was that you can be. You know, it's like I have a friend who was in modern pentathlon you can like for me, where there's five sports is what I'm comparing it to.

Speaker 1: 25:24

What are the five?

Speaker 2: 25:26

It's 200 meter swim, horse jumping, fencing and running with shooting.

Speaker 1: 25:39

Oh, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 25:43

So the point being, if you want, because we went to see her in Olympics and we went to see her in Pan Am, you know, like amazing events and it's fascinating to watch, like, say, the 200 meter swim, because relative to an Olympic swimmer, generally speaking, it's pretty slow.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Right.

Speaker 2: 26:03

But they are really good at five sports Right. And in the first time I was in a team in triathlon I could never have done maybe biking, I'm not even sure. But like I, it was great for me because I could be pretty good at three and do well, yeah, as opposed to being top in one, yeah. But I think also because I in the end it turned out that the endurance was also good for me because mentally I could keep pushing and I think the endurance you need that as well, yeah, and the nutrition.

Speaker 1: 26:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Yeah, so put that all together. I enjoyed that challenge of the three sports. Yeah, Immediately, even in a sprint. I just thought oh, this is really cool.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Yeah, yeah. So you go through the successions, you get to Olympic and then, and then you get to half iron, and then iron, and then you get to the top and you're there.

Speaker 2: 27:02

Yeah, so I signed up for Lake Placid and as your first time, as my first iron same as you. Yeah Right, yeah, it's a good good one. And so I remember I was in so much pain at the end and you have your special needs bags, if you remember, at the halfway point, so you also had access to them with basically one mile to go to the finish, and I stopped and took Tylenol with one mile to go, which is just really funny.

Speaker 1: 27:34

Right, you had like 12 minutes. Oh yeah, like as if that was going to do anything.

Speaker 2: 27:37

But anyways, I was in so much pain and I finished and my mom was there watching and I remember sitting on this bench I've told this story before but outside that oval track, saying to my mom, I know that people say, you know you're going to want to do another one, but I am so sure, like I'm a hundred percent sure, I am never doing that again. And then, literally like the next day, I was like, but if I had you know the classic, only done this, and yeah, so I signed up for Lake Placid again.

Speaker 1: 28:11

The following year.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Yeah, and then I qualified for Hawaii, so then I had to go to Hawaii. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:19

And I was like, wow, you must have had a massive improvement. I mean, you had a calendar year to train and to target.

Speaker 2: 28:25

Yeah, I can't you know. Again, these are the stats I can't remember. I feel like I was 12 the first one, and then 11 something the second and qualified with that. I actually can't remember exactly, but yeah, it made improvement and then, once I qualified, I had to go to Hawaii.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Of course.

Speaker 2: 28:48

And then that's actually how I decided to turn pro was I did Hawaii and I was like, hey, I'm not that far down Again can't remember the number, but I'm not that far down in the pro like in women overall. Maybe this should be my sport that I take to my top level, because I hadn't done it in rowing I quit because it was going to be in my mind too long, and swimming I quit. So I thought, oh, okay, maybe in this sport I'll see how far I can go to my top level, whatever that is, and get that. You know, I felt like that was unfinished business.

Speaker 1: 29:23

Cool.

Speaker 2: 29:24

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 1: 29:26

I love this aspect of it. It's because you know it's so, so neat, because like there's some pain there, right, if you you go in there's like there's a kernel of pain and that can you take that pain and you turn it into a very powerful Driver. It's very inspiring.

Speaker 2: 29:43

Yeah, and and that regret and the regret. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:50

And so it, it sort of it, becomes wind in your sales and a bit of your you know your, your north, your bearings of that's your north. Yeah, um, can I share with you one story? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 30:03

It's so funny hearing you. I had a very similar story.

Speaker 1: 30:07

So this Lake Placid is actually going to be number two. Nice, I did um Trombone, the last full that they did last year, which is oh yeah, you did Trombone and not Lake Placid. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:18

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:19

For some reason I thought you did Lake Placid, you did Trombone. Yeah, first one Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:23

Yeah, and then my yeah, so Lake Placid's coming up this year, um, but I had the most hilarious uh experience. I was running, I don't know how, but I found this guy who happened we were the same, you know, 225 pound, you know he was the only other huge dude and so, you know, we hung out. He was a little bit younger than me and he had done. I think he had done. That was like his fifth.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Right.

Speaker 1: 30:51

And uh, so I was faster than them on the bike, but he was better on the run because right from the beginning he had done a run walk thing.

Speaker 2: 31:01

And I had no fucking plan.

Speaker 1: 31:05

I just I ran 15 K like a complete idiot, blew it all up and just suffered the rest of the and I and I and I didn't uh, I didn't hit my special needs bag on the bike and all my nutrition was on it, Right, so? So, anyways, so him and I are together and, uh, you know, at the beginning of the run he was like, he was like he's like yeah, man, um, this is so great.

Speaker 1: 31:32

I'm from. He was from New York state or something. And and, uh, you know, he's like, yes, my first time in Canada is great. And, um, you know, I just love this. I've met people like you and and, like, not long after that, both of us were. He was like you know, I I don't know why I keep doing these. I fucking hate this. I'm never doing this again. I'm like dude. I don't know why. This was a big mistake. I thought it was going to.

Speaker 2: 32:00

Let me share with you. In 25 Iron man, I said the exact same thing.

Speaker 1: 32:05

It's like hilarious. That's how dark you get.

Speaker 2: 32:09

Oh yeah, even when you do it as a career. You say it every single time. Every time, yes, oh my God, multiple times.

Speaker 1: 32:18

So ridiculous. And then that night I'm sitting there with like Michelle, Jeff and Karen and, like you know, they're like so do you want to do it again? And I'm like, absolutely, it took me like four hours to decide I wanted to do another one.

Speaker 2: 32:33

Usually it's the next day. Yeah, yeah, that's impressive.

Speaker 1: 32:36

Oh, I was, yeah, I was. I was in cloud nine when I finished that. That's awesome. Oh, that's so funny, so okay. So you, you look at the stats, you're like, okay, I'm not that far off and um, can you talk about what it's like to go pro and what that meant for you?

Speaker 2: 32:52

For me then it was um, I talked to my coach at the time and I was like what do you think? You know, just to make sure that I wasn't completely off on my like idea.

Speaker 1: 33:03

Who is your coach?

Speaker 2: 33:04

Um, at the time it was Steve Bentley, yeah, um, and then, for the rest of my career, was Scott Molina.

Speaker 1: 33:12

Oh.

Speaker 2: 33:12

Yeah, which was incredible. Yeah, so he's, he was my coach through my whole career. Wow, yeah, he's my amazing coach, amazing everything. Yeah, amazing athlete. He's in New Zealand, yeah, so, um, yeah, and actually it was kind of neat how I met him. Um, that's kind of a cool story actually.

Speaker 2: 33:35

Um but basically I, yeah, I had to apply to triathlon Ontario for a pro card, so it and actually I don't know if it's changed now, but basically you had to have, um, they had to deem you worthy, and so it was based on results that you had done, whether it be an overall time or a place from you know, a placing and so they grant you that status essentially. And once you have that status, you can apply to race as a pro, and that usually means you're then eligible to win the prize money. Okay, um, it also gives you credibility. So for me, when I was looking for sponsorship, I could say I have my pro card, um, and so that that helps to get sponsorship, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I would also contact races and they would um help me find accommodation with home stays, you know. So you, you get a bit of help when you start racing as a pro, uh, with your, with your, yeah, accommodations, and sometimes there's an appearance fee, uh, yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:44

That that you get paid.

Speaker 2: 34:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:46

That's cool. Yeah, that helps. Yeah, it's. It's such an expensive.

Speaker 2: 34:51

It's so expensive.

Speaker 1: 34:52

Yeah, the combination, all that.

Speaker 2: 34:54

One of the things that I absolutely loved racing as a pro was that I met so many amazing people around this world. Because I raced all over the world and I would always ask for a home stay so I would meet local people. They would. It was incredible, and people that I'm still in touch with you know today. So you know, for me, I did okay in the sport, like I'm, I'm fine and happy with how I did, but the travel that I did and like the experiences I had around the world was amazing. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:27

You know, I think you're really touching on something that I have, uh and I have been doing this very long at all Um, doing a sport like this is an incredible purchase on life, not just because of the thing you're doing, but all the things that are orbiting it. Um, the travel to trauma, the, the lead up, the ceremony, uh, the emotional ceremony that you're going through the day before. All that stuff is just so meaningful and the people that share in that with you just leave this like imprint on you.

Speaker 2: 35:58

Yeah, yeah, and the impact you have on other people and it gets passed on.

Speaker 1: 36:03

Yeah, right, yeah, it's an amazing.

Speaker 2: 36:06

yeah, it's an amazing thing.

Speaker 1: 36:09

But what do you think your most memorable race was in in that segment? Because you're still doing some really cool shit right now, but in that segment.

Speaker 2: 36:18

Um, I think racing in Lanzarote, probably the year that I came second there, was amazing because my shoulder dislocated in the swim in the first 400 meters and I really, you know, I kept going and I came in second. Anyways, I often wonder if that could have been my Ironman Champion day, but it wasn't meant to be. But that day, just coming in second place, that was an amazing feeling, amazing day, and I love that island and I loved all the people who ran that race. For me that was a special place, so I think that probably was my most memorable day.

Speaker 1: 37:17

What year was that?

Speaker 2: 37:20

2008, maybe, I think 2008. Yeah, eight or not Eight, no, eight, ah, seven, see, I don't know. Yeah, around 2007,. 2008. Yeah, yeah, I think it was actually. It might have been the year before, so it might have been 2007. And then I came 12th in Hawaii that same year. It could have been that year.

Speaker 1: 37:59

How many times have you raced Kona?

Speaker 2: 38:01

I went to Kona six times.

Speaker 1: 38:02

Oh my.

Speaker 2: 38:03

God.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Yeah, wow.

Speaker 2: 38:10

Yeah, 2008 was my last year there.

Speaker 1: 38:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:15

I didn't finish that one.

Speaker 1: 38:17

What happened?

Speaker 2: 38:20

That was 2008 when, 80 miles into the bike, I was in fourth place overall, having a great day, and a volunteer ran out in front of me and I crashed on the bike, so that was it.

Speaker 1: 38:37

It was in a bad crash.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of crazy. As I got back on my bike, you could see my I had a what's it called a SRM power meter and it went from like 30 kilometers an hour to zero and then you see a mile of like 12. But my handlebars, my helmet were all cracked Like it was really bad. But I was even on for another mile. I broke 11 bones.

Speaker 1: 39:06

Oh my God. And you rode. You just wanted to finish, or what was?

Speaker 2: 39:12

Well, I did a mile and then it was clear Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I couldn't keep going. So that was. That was a bit rough.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Oh my God, okay, so did you? Did you just? Did you strike the person, or did you?

Speaker 2: 39:29

What happened was there was a pro, like a little bit in front of me and they dropped their water bottle, okay, and.

Speaker 2: 39:36

But it was, like you know, they were probably a hundred meters in front of me or something like that, and I saw the bottle in on the road and it was kind of rolling to the outside, which is, you know it, sort of canters to the, to the outside, and so I went to the inside, on the like on the right of the middle line, so I wasn't crossing the line but to go around the water bottle and to show them that I wasn't stopping at that aid station, because you don't have to stop at all of them. So I was in my arrow bars and I moved towards the center line and the woman bent down to get that water bottle. So it would have been fine if she just picked it up, but she did like the ball boy thing. I think she just picked it up and ran forward, which makes no sense at all because there's two way traffic on this highway. Anyway, she ran. I think she just tried to get out of the way, so to speak, and ran right in front of me.

Speaker 1: 40:29

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 40:30

Yeah, and it was a. She didn't do it on purpose, but it wasn't a very good decision. If she'd just picked up the water bottle and stood there, it would have been fine, or walked back from where she came from, but she like went in front.

Speaker 1: 40:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:45

So I hit her.

Speaker 1: 40:46

Yeah, oh boy yeah. It wasn't good, and what kind of impact did this have on?

Speaker 2: 40:55

Well, the interesting thing is, in 2005, my front fork disintegrated when I was training, and so I broke nine broken bone. I had nine broken bones in that race in 2005. And so by the time I got to 2007, where I had come 12, 2008, I was like, okay, I'm going to be top 10, you know, in Hawaii, yeah, and so I had recovered from one major crash, I felt that I was finally back to being strong and able to do you know, I don't know my my best. And then this happened. So that impact was that I never yeah, I never got back after that, but you know, I was, didn't have that many more years anyways, but it, yeah, I tried to come back after that, I would say unsuccessfully.

Speaker 1: 41:51

Yeah, yeah. What kind of impact did that have on you?

Speaker 2: 41:56

Um, I mean um, I mean um, I mean um. I think it was like um, I think it was like I. Now that I'm here, where I am, it's, it's um. It's actually really great and it's okay, Cause it's made me who I am, you know it's like classic.

Speaker 2: 42:14

You hear people who are in accidents and they say that a lot, but I genuinely feel that that is true and it's made me appreciate a lot of everything and not sweat the little shit. Wow, you know, um, and I'm okay with it. Yeah, at the time it was, it was devastating because, you know, I'd been 10th until the last mile the year before and came in 12th and trained a whole year, finally felt like I had recovered from my previous injuries and and then crashed again. So that was sad, very sad at the time.

Speaker 1: 42:54

Um, and no fault of your own either, Like you could have just yeah, it was just luck.

Speaker 2: 43:00

Yeah, yeah, it was was unlucky, yeah, but it also, you know, I've been able to use it in a positive way and I can use it with my daughter, I can. You know, like, yeah, just being okay with like not everything's perfect and makes me really appreciate a lot, so I'm okay with it.

Speaker 1: 43:27

Yeah, I love that so much. It reminds me of you know the, the idea that life doesn't happen to you, it happens for you, and something like that you know has given you so much as as far as being able to pay it forward for those around you. That's so great.

Speaker 2: 43:41

Yeah, my body might be paying for it now. My 25 broken bones. I feel like I'm starting to feel it now at 52.

Speaker 1: 43:52

You're an absolute warrior. So okay, can we keep going from there. So you have this, this race, and then what was your next move?

Speaker 2: 44:05

So after that was having a kid, yeah. So once I decided that I didn't think I could keep improving and I was, you know, I was now like 38 or 39, um, I'd waited to have a family, so got pregnant and so stop racing as a pro at that point and had my daughter Maya. Yeah, so she's now 11. Um, and even after I had her, I was training a lot. I was racing, or sorry, running training camps, um, and so I kind of kept my huge amount of training, because it has become who I am, and to this day I want to train all the time and I don't even care if I'm racing or not, it's who I am, a hundred percent, um.

Speaker 2: 44:56

So two months after she was born, I was in Hawaii running a training camp and Bruce was following me around with Maya in a van, so I could breastfeed every two to four hours, or whatever it was. Yeah, oh my God, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:10

So, um, yeah, I had Maya, and then.

Speaker 2: 45:11

I decided to switch my focus To trail running and, um, I do something completely different and I got into ultra trail running. Um, because I did a 50 K, then I wanted to do a 50 mile, so for me it was a new challenge, something that I didn't care. If I was good, I didn't need to win. I didn't need to. You know, I took all the pressure off trying to be top or get a win and just enjoy the ultra Endurance stuff.

Speaker 1: 45:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:47

So that that's been a real shift for me from Ironman. Like I actually, I did one iron distance race in France since retiring, but again, it was because it was the hardest race and it wasn't yeah, it wasn't, it's um, it's not in the Ironman circuit.

Speaker 1: 46:07

Oh yeah. I'm, I'm is it a challenge thing or no?

Speaker 2: 46:11

it's uh. Oh my gosh, I will get back to you on that. We can put yeah, it's funny, I thought of it the other day. Uh, it's an independent.

Speaker 1: 46:20

Okay, it's like an indie it's going to come to me, it's like right on the tip of my tongue Uh and brumman. Okay.

Speaker 2: 46:27

Yeah, and it's really hard. Um. So, again, I didn't care how fast I was at that distance, I just wanted to complete the challenge and so the yeah I like. So then it progressed to Ultraman, which my friend Hillary, who I used to race pro with, had done and had one, and I'd always had my eye on Ultraman. And so now that I was done racing Ironman and had, you know, my daughter, I decided to train for Ultraman, which is now my most favorite thing to do.

Speaker 1: 47:03

So, oh my God, this is, this is a really cool story. So okay, so, um, could we actually just take a sec and um talk about the distances, first with Olympic distance and then Ironman, and then compare it to um Ultraman, Yep, Yep.

Speaker 2: 47:22

So Olympic distance triathlon is 1.5 K swim, 40 K bike, 10 K run, ironman's 3.8 K swim, 180 K bike and a marathon, so uh, 42.3. And then Ultraman is a three day event, so day one is a 10 K swim, 145 K bike, day two is a 276 K bike and day three is a double marathon, so 84.4 K.

Speaker 1: 47:55

Okay, oh, like it's just incredible.

Speaker 2: 48:02

It's awesome, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:05

And uh, yeah, Okay, so so you, you, you go into do your first. Uh, Ultraman, Um, how did it go?

Speaker 2: 48:15

Well, just to add to my injuries. Um, I finished my last long run and had some hip discomfort and so I was a bit concerned about it, saw a bunch of specialists who didn't think it was a fracture. But I had an X-ray, just to you know, to check. It also was negative. But I couldn't get a bone scan, which is the only definitive really the only definitive um way to diagnose fracture. So I went into the double marathon with a fracture in my femur and then I proceeded to run 84.4 K on a fracture which every step broke, broke, broke. So it was just the fracture was getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So by the time I was finished the 84.4 K run, I could not put my toe on the ground. But you know what it's like when you're racing with adrenaline.

Speaker 1: 49:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:13

So I just kept going with the finish line in mind and was on crutches literally after. So I went to get an X-ray because I was like this is bad, and the X-ray was negative, which is insane because my femur was ready to snap into pieces. So some lesson learned from all of this is that X-rays are not necessarily definitive for broken bones, which we know usually at the beginning. But in this case, the surgeon that I had later asked me to send him the X-ray because he's like there's no way your X-ray was negative, your femur was ready to snap into pieces. So four days later I went to the island of Kauai just for a vacation after finishing the race and we went on this walk at the top of the canyon and I slipped. So I ditched the crutches because I could kind of hobble now, and I slipped and as I fell, my femur snapped into pieces, oh my God.

Speaker 2: 50:10

So I was at the top of this canyon with no cell phone coverage, with my leg and two pieces, and it broke pretty high up by the neck. So it's also yeah, it's dangerous. So the best part, or worst part about the story is that it looked like my leg was dislocated. My hip was dislocated because my leg was in the wrong place. So there were two ER former and ER docs there who asked for my permission to relocate my dislocated hip, which was not dislocated. So twice they tractioned and rotated my broken bone, which hurt more than anything I have ever been through. Needless to say, by the time we got to the hospital which was a while, and I have a really cool story there, but I figured out it wasn't actually dislocated, so they were just rotating a broken bone.

Speaker 1: 51:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:13

Bruce feels a little bit badly about this to this day because the sounds coming out of my body were not good.

Speaker 1: 51:19

You must have been crying.

Speaker 2: 51:22

Well, I actually think if Maya had not been there so she was four and we were on this walk and if she hadn't been there, I think I would have passed out from the pain. But because she was there and I was in mummy mode, I couldn't, I didn't want yeah, I was just I didn't and they had to come in with a stretcher on a wheel to wheel me out because it was only like not, it was like a mile in from the parking lot, but because it was slippery, like even the paramedics slipped and fell, like it was treacherous, we should not have been out there. And so the cool story just doesn't aside is I went to do the loop which is ride the Tour de France, and the very first day that I'm there, I'm in the lobby of the hotel and I met this guy from Kauai. I use firefighter and we find out seven or four, maybe six years later, whatever it was, he's the guy who wheeled me out.

Speaker 1: 52:19

You're kidding, no.

Speaker 2: 52:20

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Huh, yeah, he's like oh yeah, I wheeled you out.

Speaker 1: 52:25

What are the odds of that?

Speaker 2: 52:27

Yeah Well, like he said, there aren't too many broken femurs at the top of Waimea Canyon, so it was definitely me who wheeled you out.

Speaker 1: 52:36

So did he recognize you? Or just the story, the story.

Speaker 2: 52:39

Yeah, and I didn't recognize him.

Speaker 1: 52:42

Wow. Yeah, this is a wild story.

Speaker 2: 52:47

Yeah, so I now have a foot long titanium rod in my femur, among other hardware throughout my body. I'm just adding to the collection.

Speaker 1: 53:00

Oh, You're a badass.

Speaker 2: 53:03

This is so, or unlucky, or so or stupid. Could be all of the above.

Speaker 1: 53:09

So okay, do you hug this guy or do you do? What do you do? Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:13

Yeah, it was. It was pretty, it was pretty cool. Yeah, I'm still good like in touch with him and yeah. Yeah, he's a really great guy.

Speaker 1: 53:21

Oh my god, yeah, okay, okay. So you, this is so wild, so this stuff happens, but it doesn't stop you.

Speaker 2: 53:35

Yeah, I mean, I actually didn't know if I would ever run again. So I also got really lucky because the surgeon that I had on this remote island of Kauai was a runner and Knew that I wanted to run again. He's like I don't know if you'll run again, but I'll do my best kind of thing, and so he used a smaller rod than he would in a 90 year old he doesn't want to run again so that tendons wouldn't catch. And I got so lucky I had him. I've been back and I've thanked him and I have, you know, he did an amazing job. So Once I did all the rehab and it took a year, you know I started training again and then I had come second that year in the Ultraman and went back two years later and that's when I won it. And it wasn't that I went to win it, I went to to finish it better, you know, and uninjured, yeah, so yeah, and then I just keep going back because I love that race so much.

Speaker 1: 54:38

It's so cool.

Speaker 2: 54:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:41

Did you say that you came second the race that you had broken in your femur?

Speaker 2: 54:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 54:47

Oh my god, wow, what did it feel like to return and win it. I know it wasn't about the winning, but yeah, it was.

Speaker 2: 54:57

Yeah, that was pretty emotional.

Speaker 1: 55:00

Was it yeah?

Speaker 2: 55:01

Yeah, yeah. Running with my friend, really good friend, who I call my twin David, to the finish and having Maya and Bruce and everybody there was Absolutely Amazing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:13

Wow.

Speaker 2: 55:14

Yeah, that's pretty great.

Speaker 1: 55:16

That's like a picture perfect ending. It almost seems like you know. From my vantage point, just hearing your story, it sounds like all of these things happened so that you could do that race.

Speaker 2: 55:27

Yeah, yeah and just have that and for me this race is Like when I started racing Iron man. It was the Iron man family and it's so big now. It, it, there's. There's none of that left in my opinion yeah. Yeah, it's just so big. Whereas Ultraman, you know, there's 40 competitors in Hawaii. There's other races around the world that have more entries, but it is a special, special race. Yeah, it's very respectful of everybody. Everybody's like it's one big family, yeah yeah, I could see that. Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 56:12

You know, another thing I love so much about this and stories like this is I'm a big believer in Unimpeachable credentials. So this idea that you go through something and you Obtain whatever it is, but it goes in the trophy case of your heart.

Speaker 2: 56:32

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 56:32

Nobody can take that from you.

Speaker 2: 56:35

Yeah and. And I also think when you go through Shit, like you said, when you go through things, you Learn that, that mental Toughness, that positivity, whatever it is for you that you take to the rest of your life, yeah, and that you can pass on to other people, yeah. So for me, coaching and being a mom, you know, and being able to pass that on to Maya is Something that I really enjoy, and I'm thankful that I have Stupid, crazy stories To hopefully and to help other people moving forward. Yeah, yeah, it's very satisfying.

Speaker 1: 57:20

I'm absolutely, you know, like I. Just I know people are gonna listen to this recording and be like You're not going to believe, but this, like it's, it's exceptional.

Speaker 2: 57:35

There was a time when Maya had, you know, those little scratch it art things. You take like a Wooden, like pencil, and you scratch away the top and then there's color underneath, yeah, yeah. So she had a whole bunch of those and I came into her room and she had done all these little scratching Things and they were all positive things. You know, like my mantra is all is great, as she had. Like you know, anything's possible and yeah. All these like positive words. Yeah, this is so great.

Speaker 1: 58:09

Yeah, like All of this was for that and that it's not always perfect.

Speaker 2: 58:17

Yeah but it's all perfect.

Speaker 1: 58:19

Yeah, yeah, it's all great, it's, it's an incredible story. You know, one of the Things that has drawn me to the sport of triathlon and endurance and ultra man, I want to do it even more now, I know you do, you're going to do it and I'm gonna be there with you. Yeah, I'm definitely doing.

Speaker 2: 58:44

I know you are.

Speaker 1: 58:47

One of the things that draws me to it is I really like sports that are that glorify the process. It's not that I don't like sports like softball and basketball and all the other ones where it's about the game, those are great, but they don't move me from an emotional standpoint. There. I found Triathlon During one of the darkest times of my life, not that I'm unique. It was COVID and it was a really bad place for me, like it was for almost everybody, and it showed me something and it was the process and and that it was very similar to CrossFit. And CrossFit glorifies the process because it's it's like CrossFit. There's like something like 45 sports next into the one.

Speaker 2: 59:37

Thing.

Speaker 1: 59:39

But the triathlon, there was an elegance in the three Really related to what you're saying about, when you first discovered, like, oh, I do this and then a transition, and then I do that and there's, there's a magic there. It's like three's the right number. Yeah and it's who. Crossing the finish line at Trombone was life-changing, yeah, but it pales in comparison to how much my life changed training to get there.

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I had a friend ask me to do a Talk and this was at the Glenn Gould music.

Speaker 1: 1:00:16

School, yeah, downtown on King.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

Yeah, well, actually we say it, we. It was at the RCM, so it was. It was a group of students, yeah, there. And so when I was sort of preparing for that, it was just that realization that everything that I do in triathlon, the mental stuff in particular, translates to a performance, to a musician Right. So all of what we do is like Can be utilized in our lives. So your life-changing experience, I feel like it's all related. It's all related to how, how, what you do like, how you, yeah, how you like this is such a cliche, but overcome that adversity and and make and get to the finish line.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:04

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 1:01:06

It is, excellence in this one area is excellence in the other areas.

Speaker 2: 1:01:10

Yeah, it's so neat and when you get to ultra bands even magnified because it's it's just just extra special.

Speaker 1: 1:01:19

Yeah, so what's next Actually? Not not where are you now? What are you working on now and and what's going on in your yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:29

So, speaking of all my injuries coming to haunt me, so as you know, I've had shoulder surgery, so I'm overcoming that, and all of a sudden my knee is starting to bother me. So I am Gonna be working on that and it just feels very random. So I'm feeling a little bit injured right now. So I have no plans, no set plans. I would. I'm going to do ultra man again, yeah. So whether I do it this year or the next year, tbd, the only thing I have planned is I'm going to go hike the Dolomites with some friends. So again, the totally different and, and you know, it's over like 10 days, so More of a hike, but in an amazing place. So right now that's the only thing I have planned, which will be in July.

Speaker 2: 1:02:14

Oh, okay, yeah so I think at some point I would ride that tour de France again that I just did because that was amazing, but I'm not right away. Yeah, so Ultra trail, I'll probably do a 50-miler.

Speaker 1: 1:02:30

Yeah, my knees Okay. The tour of key share a little bit about that. So the tour de France last year was the first year that I really tuned in and it Was a hell of a year to really become a fan. Yeah, what a season that was. Yeah what do you call that a race?

Speaker 2: 1:02:44

Yeah, a month, yeah, a month of racing, yeah, yeah it was so exciting.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

I was glued to it. I loved it. Can you share what you did?

Speaker 2: 1:02:54

Yeah, so actually at towards the. So two years ago I went to do it towards the end of that pandemic it wasn't the end yet and there's a company called Lulup that I've and there are other companies that do similar things, but Lulup is the one that I did and it is the exact tour de France, except that it's one week in advance and we like to say we ride more than the tour de France, guys, because we have to get to our hotel and they have bus transfers. But it was a month and you can choose different portions of it, but I chose to attempt to do the entire tour de France and so two summers ago Like 50 people came down with COVID, so after nine stages I had to abandon ship and.

Speaker 2: 1:03:49

I mean I'm happy I band and ship, even though I didn't feel sick at all. Yeah like I felt like I keep going. But the rule was you couldn't, and hindsight, and even then I didn't want to risk my health Because we didn't know what it would be like to push. So went back this past year for again redemption, yeah and finished that tour de France. Sadly I crashed with 10k to go, but I finished it and so Mission accompli.

Speaker 2: 1:04:18

Yeah, mm-hmm so it's, it's a month, it's 21 days of Riding. Yeah, it's an amazing, an amazing experience, and it's not. I mean, when you watch the tour de France, those guys are racing and women are racing, yeah, whereas you know, I chose to do it as, and you know, you could race some days, you could go into Peloton and push a bit or you could have an easier day, but I just really just rode every day, enjoyed the scenery. Oh my god. Places we rode was amazing, yeah, and it's a great organization and how they run it, so you don't have to worry about anything. You just wake up and ride your bike amazing yeah amazing.

Speaker 1: 1:05:05

I'm also gonna do that. Yeah, you know who I'm gonna do that with is Trent yeah, okay, we've talked about it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:13

Yeah, oh, it's so amazing.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

Oh, that's so cool. I you know, what you said earlier just sort of struck me about redemption again. So much of your story is really just about redemption. It's true, sadly and but isn't that the most relatable thing in the world? Like I don't know a single person Actually, let me rephrase that I don't know a single person whom I deeply respect who hasn't gone through hell.

Speaker 2: 1:05:40

You know. It's interesting that you say that, because the number of people who say to me I don't know how you got back on your bike after your first crash, I don't know how you got back on your bike after your second crash, how do you do this? How do you keep coming back time and time again? And I honestly believe I mean most of my friends would, you would, I know you would, and so part of it is, I think, if you have a passion and you get that sense of satisfaction and like you make it you, that redemption or that comeback or whatever, like it's important for happiness. I Keep coming back because I love doing this.

Speaker 1: 1:06:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:23

And I think most of my friends would do exactly what I've done absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:28

I? There's a line Happy athlete is a dangerous yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:32

Yeah, you know it's, it's that's why I tell people to smile. Yeah, smile.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

Yeah, there's a total psychology to that 100%. You've told me to smile while you're pushing me 400. What?

Speaker 2: 1:06:50

When you have an ftp of.

Speaker 1: 1:06:54

Okay, well, but I want to respect your time. This was a fabulous chat. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and so fun, wasn't it fun? It's so fun, um, and remember, you didn't know if we could talk for now.

Speaker 2: 1:07:06

I know that's crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:07:09

Yeah, we totally yeah, thanks so much and hope to have you back.

Speaker 2: 1:07:16

I believe,